Science

On Thursday, April 30, 2026 at 5:33:47 PM UTC-7 Dan wrote:

The child in question does not get a say in the decisions you make for them, and we are right to be concerned on their behalf.

No child ever in the hundreds of thousands of years of homo sapiens, has a child had the right (or ability) to get a say in their genetic makeup. The parents themselves have in fact only had anything but fuzzy proxies until the past few decades.

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Matt, very few people in this group would claim that clones cell lines for exclusively therapeutic purposes or that gene editing to prevent hereditary disease is somehow inherently wrong. Cathal specifically qualified "anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles". The precise language around the intended project was, verbatim, "the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years", which is markedly different to what you are implying is the subject of ethical questioning. Regardless, your mention of distrust rooted in "religious superstition and raw emotion" does affirm that it exists, and widely so; and how is one to work, or convince others of their work's virtue, when subjects like this cannot be addressed?

On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 4:07 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:

That isn't the application they were planning. It was explicitly the psych-case cloning of individuals. The articles shared uplist are revealing.

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29 Apr 2026, 20:59 by forkface242@gmail.com:

100%? That's "absolute" BS. Therapeutic cloning isn't all about eugenics — think totipotent ESCs and organ replacement. What's reprehensible about either of those benefits that isn't rooted in religious superstition and raw emotion?

Now, if you're talking about the bioethics of having a complete individual exist who is extremely similar to you — that's a different issue entirely. Probably one for a psychiatrist.

Will someone remind me why we're talking about frikkin' Epstein on the DIYBio chat? FFS.

---

From: 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2026 11:55:32 AM
To: Diybio <diybio@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...

 

Human cloning is 100% reprehensible, and engineering for anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles is ego-trip TESCREAL horseshit.

Even if it weren't being done with a group of people who openly write about eugenic murder of disabled and elderly people, it would still be reprehensible on its face.

You're right: the objectification of infants for ego-stroking edgelord crypto billionaires "runs hot".

Fuck this.

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29 Apr 2026, 19:45 by kanzure@gmail.com:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 1:18 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Wow, reveals new and exciting forms of reprehensible child abuse by Epstein, enthusiastically facilitated by someone from this community. I wasn't actually expecting it to be this bad and, yet

Anything regarding Jeffrey Epstein tends to run very hot. That name has become a lightning rod for anyone to imagine any evil or disgusting thing they want. I hope for reasonable minds and the evidence to prevail. I hope people ask questions before jumping to whatever their absolute worst imagination can drum up.

Anyone who wants to discuss the technology that I've advocated for out in the open for more than a decade, then you're more than welcome. But I won't engage in any witch hunts.

Want to learn more about my efforts in human embryo genetic engineering? Take a look here on my site:

https://diyhpl.us/wiki/designer-baby-faq/

Thank you,

- Bryan

https://x.com/kanzure

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That isn't the application they were planning. It was explicitly the psych-case cloning of individuals. The articles shared uplist are revealing.

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29 Apr 2026, 20:59 by forkface242@gmail.com:

100%? That's "absolute" BS. Therapeutic cloning isn't all about eugenics — think totipotent ESCs and organ replacement. What's reprehensible about either of those benefits that isn't rooted in religious superstition and raw emotion?

Now, if you're talking about the bioethics of having a complete individual exist who is extremely similar to you — that's a different issue entirely. Probably one for a psychiatrist.

Will someone remind me why we're talking about frikkin' Epstein on the DIYBio chat? FFS.

---

From: 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2026 11:55:32 AM
To: Diybio <diybio@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...

 

Human cloning is 100% reprehensible, and engineering for anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles is ego-trip TESCREAL horseshit.

Even if it weren't being done with a group of people who openly write about eugenic murder of disabled and elderly people, it would still be reprehensible on its face.

You're right: the objectification of infants for ego-stroking edgelord crypto billionaires "runs hot".

Fuck this.

--

Are you at all interested in Irish Mythology? You might like my newsletter, The Gods and their Croziers:

https://buttondown.com/godsandcroziers

29 Apr 2026, 19:45 by kanzure@gmail.com:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 1:18 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Wow, reveals new and exciting forms of reprehensible child abuse by Epstein, enthusiastically facilitated by someone from this community. I wasn't actually expecting it to be this bad and, yet

Anything regarding Jeffrey Epstein tends to run very hot. That name has become a lightning rod for anyone to imagine any evil or disgusting thing they want. I hope for reasonable minds and the evidence to prevail. I hope people ask questions before jumping to whatever their absolute worst imagination can drum up.

Anyone who wants to discuss the technology that I've advocated for out in the open for more than a decade, then you're more than welcome. But I won't engage in any witch hunts.

Want to learn more about my efforts in human embryo genetic engineering? Take a look here on my site:

https://diyhpl.us/wiki/designer-baby-faq/

Thank you,

- Bryan

https://x.com/kanzure

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"The less you know about something - the more confident you are about that" - the philosophers dilemma

On 4/29/2026 1:33 PM, Bryan Bishop wrote:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 3:12 PM alexaxon62 <alexaxon62@gmail.com> wrote:

Matt, very few people in this group would claim that clones cell lines for exclusively therapeutic purposes or that gene editing to prevent hereditary disease is somehow inherently wrong. Cathal specifically qualified "anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles". The precise language around the intended project was, verbatim, "the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years", which is markedly different to what you are implying is the subject of ethical questioning. Regardless, your mention of distrust rooted in "religious superstition and raw emotion" does affirm that it exists, and widely so; and how is one to work, or convince others of their work's virtue, when subjects like this cannot be addressed?

There seems to be some confusion here about what world we are living in.

The first births have, since then, already happened. Genetically modified human children already walk the earth. IVF is real and there are millions of people alive today because of these technologies.

As for news articles, you should read them with a grain of salt. Many journalists tend to be controlled by incentives that veer toward sensationalism and a lack of investigative depth. Some might even have a limited understanding of the subject matter.

I will also add that you don't need to be personally convinced of the virtue of these technologies because they aren't being forced upon you and you're free to forego them.

- Bryan
https://x.com/kanzure

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On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 3:12 PM alexaxon62 <alexaxon62@gmail.com> wrote:

Matt, very few people in this group would claim that clones cell lines for exclusively therapeutic purposes or that gene editing to prevent hereditary disease is somehow inherently wrong. Cathal specifically qualified "anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles". The precise language around the intended project was, verbatim, "the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years", which is markedly different to what you are implying is the subject of ethical questioning. Regardless, your mention of distrust rooted in "religious superstition and raw emotion" does affirm that it exists, and widely so; and how is one to work, or convince others of their work's virtue, when subjects like this cannot be addressed?

There seems to be some confusion here about what world we are living in.

The first births have, since then, already happened. Genetically modified human children already walk the earth. IVF is real and there are millions of people alive today because of these technologies.

As for news articles, you should read them with a grain of salt. Many journalists tend to be controlled by incentives that veer toward sensationalism and a lack of investigative depth. Some might even have a limited understanding of the subject matter.

I will also add that you don't need to be personally convinced of the virtue of these technologies because they aren't being forced upon you and you're free to forego them.

- Bryan
https://x.com/kanzure

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It's in the files man, he literally set up breeding labs for Epstein in Ukraine and AZ.

On Wednesday, April 29, 2026 at 11:54:09 AM UTC-4 Cathal Garvey wrote:

I share your frustration that the initial post felt very drive-by. If someone wants to have a meta-conversation about the regulation of our community, then they should make a sober case and lay that out.

It's essential for any healthy community to be able to keep out bad actors, so I'm only defending the possibility of having these conversations, here. As long as they're relevant to the community, IMO, they're relevant to the topic.

Throwing an apple of discord into the channel without further elaboration feels like the wrong way to start these difficult conversations, though.

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29 Apr 2026, 16:43 by dank...@gmail.com:

I suppose. Still there is next to no traffic here useful in the context of problem solving. I mean, gossip and enforcement acts titillate people generally,. but merely annoy me generally.

I think it's a long road to hoe to come up with anything materially useful about this entirely. So I think negative feedback is reasonable. I know it's nice and fancy to throw the net of civil liberties as wide as possible. But the absence of utility of this channel is point blank depressing.

It could be so great, and therefore, excitement over enabling gossip is just that much worse.

Part of life, I suppose. Time to yawn, again....

The first message I posted and deleted featured the proposed discussion is Drivel. I think now to reconsider it, that's perfect:

drivel

/ˈdriv(ə)l/

Drivel refers to nonsense, childish, or meaningless talk and writing. 

Problem is, the initial message generated some drivel of my own. That's the horror of it. Just wishing it away seems pretty ineffective. 

The core self anointed mission(s) in biotechnology and biology are so vast, there is an infinite amount of things to consider, try, wish for, think about and discuss. A guys mini projects with some deceased pervert is off topic, and I think that is that.

Regs,

Dan

Dear God(s) let;'s hope this three passes of drivel seizes up. I wish for lots of things that don't transpire, I have noticed....

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