On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:45 PM, M Lo <35.68n139.76e@gmail.com> wrote:
I am the person that organised the event. We put tons of work into it and I am terribly disappointed that you make wrong assumptions and came with such accusations. When and how did you get to the conclusion that we would eat it? We never stated that.
As someone else pointed out, your website indicated that you might taste the incubated product.
Please correct the post. I would really appreciate it. It feels really disappointing to assume that we are not scientific and we do not know the risks and we do not take the required measures. In the program it is stated that we will inactivate the bio materials.
When it comes to assumptions around safety they should always err on the side of caution. Assuming that something is safe when there is little to no evidence would be irresponsible. The community has raised real concerns with your project and they have done so because of a lack of and (as we are learning from your emails) wrong information on your website. It is a lack of transparency/documentation of your safety considerations that has caused these concerns to be raised. People are making assumptions because you have not published adequate information about how you are conducting this experiment safely in an improvised laboratory environment. From the information available it appears that your work environment for this project was likely not BSL-2 nor BSL-1 compliant (though that could very well be wrong). Community trust can be earned through transparency and reputation. You are opting to remain anonymous which makes documentation even more important.
I'm personally very excited to see more biohacking projects like this and don't want to discourage anyone from working on them, and I really do understand the need for some to remain anonymous, but we are all trying to hold each-other accountable when it comes to safe laboratory practices, so it'd be really great if there were just a few sentences to the effect that trained individuals are leading the work, that safety training for all individuals will be / was provided, that an appropriate BSL 1 or 2 space was improvised for the project, and that of course none of the materials were ever to be ingested. It doesn't take much, just a bit of clear communication around safety and a point of contact for biosafety inquiries.
That being said the tone of some other folk on this thread has been rather abrasive and unproductive as well. Let's have less of that and more actual reaching out to help. I realize I should have forwarded this thread to the biologigaragen contact email address when I saw it instead of assuming that the organizers monitor the diybio mailing list.Here's a real question to which I do not have the answer (but probably you do!): I know that C. Botulinum can grow in milk cultures, and produce botulinum neurotoxin, but it is inactivated by boiling for 10 minutes. Are there any other dangerous compounds that could realistically be produced by incubating an unknown (dairy) culture and which would not be reliably destroyed/inactivated by autoclave? I'm thinking yes (methanol comes to mind but that would evaporate and hopefully not re-condense into the sample upon cooling), so how would you inactivate your incubated product in a way that was safe to taste? Or is that simply not possible without knowledge of the incubated strains?
Good luck with future experiments!
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marc/juul
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