Science

I very much agree with cathal.

This is one area where anything that is "potentially effective" is also "potentially very dangerous"

You're trying to add something to your immune systems blacklist.

The Pandemrix Influenza vaccine caused permanent narcolepsy in some patients because it targeted a receptor very similar to a receptor on the surface of certain types of neurons which the patient's immune system then wiped out.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5253292/

Assuming that it's safe just because the precursors are safe is about as wise as assuming that since hydrogen carbon and nitrogen are safe then hydrogen cyanide should be fine.

You could leave yourself with your own immune system eating away chunks of your brain.

Mainstream vaccine researchers specialising in the area are going to be much more aware of what to be careful of.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 8:28 PM Andreas Stuermer <andreas.t.stuermer@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for this elaborate answer!! 

As far as I know, antibody-mediated enhancement should probably come with B-cell but not T-cell response. 

I know that a lot of vaccine makers are using the Spike protein, which apparently has a domain that looks like healthy lung protein domain, which then causes the immune system to freak out and keep attacking healthy tissue. Smart people have told me, though, that that probably wouldn't matter in a vaccine because the body would clear autoreactive cells. 

Chitosan being variable is a great point - one should look to get the highest grade of course. And all from the same source... 

I'm not entirely keen on trying it, but been contemplating. I signed up for a Corona vaccine trial (MVA based, so pretty promising in my opinion) in Germany but they said I live too far away. But my country is stone-age. I am 100% certain I won't get a chance before the second wave hits and it gets bad. And with the current level of stupidity... People either don't think that Corona is real, or that it's no worse than the flu (27% of the people in a survey), people wearing masks below their noses.  

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 8:51 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:

My take is usually the conservative one. :)

I don't think DIY medical bioscience is a viable or responsible route except in cases where no more professional approach is being done, or is available. So, whatever if you live somewhere with zero medical infrastructure or zero access to medicine, you do what you've gotta do. But people living where viable alternatives exist...

I also think that in this case, there's a difference between 'just peptides' and 'just peptides and adjuvents'. The nature of Adjuvents is that they make the immune system react more strongly (or extremely!) than usual to an antigen. That's often necessary when the antigen-dose of a vaccine might otherwise fade into the daily background hum of new antigens and fail to elicit a strong enough reaction. But it does mean that the immunogenicity of those peptides matters a _lot_ more than it usually would.

In other words, if there is some risk X of an immune overreaction to a peptide, and you add an adjuvent with some "adjuvent factor" Y, then your risk is now X * Y. Chitosan is probably not the strongest adjuvent out there , for sure. However, the strength of the reaction from the Chitosan is also probably _highly variable_ according to the grade of chitosan, the batch used, conditions of packaging and storage, and delivery method, volume, etcetera. Even the technique of the person doing the snorting probably matters, as it will affect where exactly the antigenic snuff ends up: upper nasal tract vs. deep lunch tissue!

And, I've worked in professional grade biomed research labs, and they're full of real humans with varying depths of knowledge and experience and risk appetite and fastidiousness. Deeply imperfect and 'doing their best'. And that's the gold standard you're trying to reach from a DIY setting: for all the good intentions in the world I think it's going to fall far short.

Finally, COVID has several methods of inducing severe reactions and lethal outcomes, and some of them relate to an immune overreaction, or an inappropriate immune response. I don't know how vaccine developers account for this stuff, or even if they do. But I could imagine a badly designed vaccine making this even worse: if by some (small) chance your vaccine _does_ elicit a reaction, it might end up being one that does much more harm than good. Say your body picks up on some epitope that usually occurs within the virus (and so the antibodies don't really affect real viruses), but when your body sees that exposed on an MHC complex it goes ballistic and triggers a cytokine storm: bad outcome.

Anyways that's my hot-take: it's not a risk I'd take, even for covid, while so little is known and so many better-prepared groups are working on better-considered vaccines.

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Aug 26, 2020, 17:56 by andreas.t.stuermer@gmail.com:

Has anyone looked deeper into RADVAC? 

https://radvac.org/white-paper/   

Basically they are working on a simple homebrew corona vaccine, by having peptides synthesized and mixing them with chitosan. 

The idea is that chitosan forms nanoparticles and takes up the peptides. Chitosan also acts as an adjuvant and stimulated both Th1 and Th2 response. 

The people there are already trying it on themselves and even George Church snorted it (not that that neccessarily means anything). 

The approch claims that it only uses materials and methods that have a long history of safe use.

Honestly, after the reports of long-term organ damage from Corona that doesn't look so crazy anymore? :D Worst case you snort some chitosan that gets degraded and some peptides that get turned into amino acids? Of course, I don't want to downplay the risks here. 

I just wonder what quality parameters you need. TFA content <1%? Quality parameter for peptides to not include truncated peptides or pepties missing amino acids? 

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Thanks for this elaborate answer!! 

As far as I know, antibody-mediated enhancement should probably come with B-cell but not T-cell response. 

I know that a lot of vaccine makers are using the Spike protein, which apparently has a domain that looks like healthy lung protein domain, which then causes the immune system to freak out and keep attacking healthy tissue. Smart people have told me, though, that that probably wouldn't matter in a vaccine because the body would clear autoreactive cells. 

Chitosan being variable is a great point - one should look to get the highest grade of course. And all from the same source... 

I'm not entirely keen on trying it, but been contemplating. I signed up for a Corona vaccine trial (MVA based, so pretty promising in my opinion) in Germany but they said I live too far away. But my country is stone-age. I am 100% certain I won't get a chance before the second wave hits and it gets bad. And with the current level of stupidity... People either don't think that Corona is real, or that it's no worse than the flu (27% of the people in a survey), people wearing masks below their noses.  

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 8:51 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:

My take is usually the conservative one. :)

I don't think DIY medical bioscience is a viable or responsible route except in cases where no more professional approach is being done, or is available. So, whatever if you live somewhere with zero medical infrastructure or zero access to medicine, you do what you've gotta do. But people living where viable alternatives exist...

I also think that in this case, there's a difference between 'just peptides' and 'just peptides and adjuvents'. The nature of Adjuvents is that they make the immune system react more strongly (or extremely!) than usual to an antigen. That's often necessary when the antigen-dose of a vaccine might otherwise fade into the daily background hum of new antigens and fail to elicit a strong enough reaction. But it does mean that the immunogenicity of those peptides matters a _lot_ more than it usually would.

In other words, if there is some risk X of an immune overreaction to a peptide, and you add an adjuvent with some "adjuvent factor" Y, then your risk is now X * Y. Chitosan is probably not the strongest adjuvent out there , for sure. However, the strength of the reaction from the Chitosan is also probably _highly variable_ according to the grade of chitosan, the batch used, conditions of packaging and storage, and delivery method, volume, etcetera. Even the technique of the person doing the snorting probably matters, as it will affect where exactly the antigenic snuff ends up: upper nasal tract vs. deep lunch tissue!

And, I've worked in professional grade biomed research labs, and they're full of real humans with varying depths of knowledge and experience and risk appetite and fastidiousness. Deeply imperfect and 'doing their best'. And that's the gold standard you're trying to reach from a DIY setting: for all the good intentions in the world I think it's going to fall far short.

Finally, COVID has several methods of inducing severe reactions and lethal outcomes, and some of them relate to an immune overreaction, or an inappropriate immune response. I don't know how vaccine developers account for this stuff, or even if they do. But I could imagine a badly designed vaccine making this even worse: if by some (small) chance your vaccine _does_ elicit a reaction, it might end up being one that does much more harm than good. Say your body picks up on some epitope that usually occurs within the virus (and so the antibodies don't really affect real viruses), but when your body sees that exposed on an MHC complex it goes ballistic and triggers a cytokine storm: bad outcome.

Anyways that's my hot-take: it's not a risk I'd take, even for covid, while so little is known and so many better-prepared groups are working on better-considered vaccines.

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Aug 26, 2020, 17:56 by andreas.t.stuermer@gmail.com:

Has anyone looked deeper into RADVAC? 

https://radvac.org/white-paper/   

Basically they are working on a simple homebrew corona vaccine, by having peptides synthesized and mixing them with chitosan. 

The idea is that chitosan forms nanoparticles and takes up the peptides. Chitosan also acts as an adjuvant and stimulated both Th1 and Th2 response. 

The people there are already trying it on themselves and even George Church snorted it (not that that neccessarily means anything). 

The approch claims that it only uses materials and methods that have a long history of safe use.

Honestly, after the reports of long-term organ damage from Corona that doesn't look so crazy anymore? :D Worst case you snort some chitosan that gets degraded and some peptides that get turned into amino acids? Of course, I don't want to downplay the risks here. 

I just wonder what quality parameters you need. TFA content <1%? Quality parameter for peptides to not include truncated peptides or pepties missing amino acids? 

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My take is usually the conservative one. :)

I don't think DIY medical bioscience is a viable or responsible route except in cases where no more professional approach is being done, or is available. So, whatever if you live somewhere with zero medical infrastructure or zero access to medicine, you do what you've gotta do. But people living where viable alternatives exist...

I also think that in this case, there's a difference between 'just peptides' and 'just peptides and adjuvents'. The nature of Adjuvents is that they make the immune system react more strongly (or extremely!) than usual to an antigen. That's often necessary when the antigen-dose of a vaccine might otherwise fade into the daily background hum of new antigens and fail to elicit a strong enough reaction. But it does mean that the immunogenicity of those peptides matters a _lot_ more than it usually would.

In other words, if there is some risk X of an immune overreaction to a peptide, and you add an adjuvent with some "adjuvent factor" Y, then your risk is now X * Y. Chitosan is probably not the strongest adjuvent out there , for sure. However, the strength of the reaction from the Chitosan is also probably _highly variable_ according to the grade of chitosan, the batch used, conditions of packaging and storage, and delivery method, volume, etcetera. Even the technique of the person doing the snorting probably matters, as it will affect where exactly the antigenic snuff ends up: upper nasal tract vs. deep lunch tissue!

And, I've worked in professional grade biomed research labs, and they're full of real humans with varying depths of knowledge and experience and risk appetite and fastidiousness. Deeply imperfect and 'doing their best'. And that's the gold standard you're trying to reach from a DIY setting: for all the good intentions in the world I think it's going to fall far short.

Finally, COVID has several methods of inducing severe reactions and lethal outcomes, and some of them relate to an immune overreaction, or an inappropriate immune response. I don't know how vaccine developers account for this stuff, or even if they do. But I could imagine a badly designed vaccine making this even worse: if by some (small) chance your vaccine _does_ elicit a reaction, it might end up being one that does much more harm than good. Say your body picks up on some epitope that usually occurs within the virus (and so the antibodies don't really affect real viruses), but when your body sees that exposed on an MHC complex it goes ballistic and triggers a cytokine storm: bad outcome.

Anyways that's my hot-take: it's not a risk I'd take, even for covid, while so little is known and so many better-prepared groups are working on better-considered vaccines.

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Aug 26, 2020, 17:56 by andreas.t.stuermer@gmail.com:

Has anyone looked deeper into RADVAC? 

https://radvac.org/white-paper/   

Basically they are working on a simple homebrew corona vaccine, by having peptides synthesized and mixing them with chitosan. 

The idea is that chitosan forms nanoparticles and takes up the peptides. Chitosan also acts as an adjuvant and stimulated both Th1 and Th2 response. 

The people there are already trying it on themselves and even George Church snorted it (not that that neccessarily means anything). 

The approch claims that it only uses materials and methods that have a long history of safe use.

Honestly, after the reports of long-term organ damage from Corona that doesn't look so crazy anymore? :D Worst case you snort some chitosan that gets degraded and some peptides that get turned into amino acids? Of course, I don't want to downplay the risks here. 

I just wonder what quality parameters you need. TFA content <1%? Quality parameter for peptides to not include truncated peptides or pepties missing amino acids? 

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DIY/hackers should be very interested in the following work:

"Right to Repair is an issue with far-reaching impacts in the engineering community, from consumer electronics to high tech farm equipment and so on. In fact, right now in Washington, there is legislation about Right to Repair issues on the floor of Congress."

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It's a thriller and the director's goal was to place it 5 minutes into the future. However, with covid some parts are now a few months in the past, e.g. something comparable to the first scene in the train happend kind of similar at the German Austrian border. 

The Bio- and Bodyhacks that are shown are actually nice homages to experiments that were created by the community in the past. Also, there are references to the biohackers that did genetherapy on themselves as well as the human embryo experiments in Shenzhen. So in the end, it's something in between, but the story is of course fictional - luckily. 

Nathan McCorkle <nmz787@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 22. Aug. 2020, 21:32:

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 8:01 AM Jérôme Lutz <jerome@synbio.info> wrote:
> Besides building a thrilling story and adding the classic Netflix plot components, I think they especially did a wonderful job portraying some of the famous biohacks of the past. Of course, in a fictional movie you cannot make quotes but I would assume that those scenes are wonderful homages to the work of biohackers and body hackers.

So is this Netflix thing fiction or documentary?

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I believe the best route for you to take would be to convert the website's labs to Jupyter notebooks sync'ed with git.

On Friday, August 21, 2020 at 8:01:32 AM UTC-7 Jérôme Lutz wrote:

Dear Biohackers, Dear DIY Community,

You might have heard already somewhere on the web, there is a new Netflix Series on Biohackers that launched today! Here is the trailer and here is the series.

Last year my crew and I had the pleasure to inspire, consult and work with the director and the film crew as well as helped them get access to many labs and locations in Munich. Later in the production, our main focus became setting up and equipping the labs of the Professor and the Biohackers. 

At that point, a big thanks to everyone who contributed some of their devices and DIY machinery! For those who are curious where they can see their stuff, I created a website dedicated for the labs - no spoilers, just lab and biohackspace porn :-)

Besides building a thrilling story and adding the classic Netflix plot components, I think they especially did a wonderful job portraying some of the famous biohacks of the past. Of course, in a fictional movie you cannot make quotes but I would assume that those scenes are wonderful homages to the work of biohackers and body hackers. 

These are the biohacks shown in the series: 

Bio Hacks

• Classical GFP Mouse
• Mushrooms tasting like chicken
• Bio Piano
• Glowing Hemp plant
• Face Picture from DNA

Body hacks

• THC Chip implant    
  
• Night Vision Droplets
• RFID Implant
• Magnet Implants in the fingers 

Which projects could have been the inspiration for those biohacks? 

What did you like, what did you not?  Any ideas für future biohacks? 

Enjoy it and looking forward to hear from you, 

Jérôme

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Dear Biohackers, Dear DIY Community,

You might have heard already somewhere on the web, there is a new Netflix Series on Biohackers that launched today! Here is the trailer and here is the series.

Last year my crew and I had the pleasure to inspire, consult and work with the director and the film crew as well as helped them get access to many labs and locations in Munich. Later in the production, our main focus became setting up and equipping the labs of the Professor and the Biohackers. 

At that point, a big thanks to everyone who contributed some of their devices and DIY machinery! For those who are curious where they can see their stuff, I created a website dedicated for the labs - no spoilers, just lab and biohackspace porn :-)

Besides building a thrilling story and adding the classic Netflix plot components, I think they especially did a wonderful job portraying some of the famous biohacks of the past. Of course, in a fictional movie you cannot make quotes but I would assume that those scenes are wonderful homages to the work of biohackers and body hackers. 

These are the biohacks shown in the series: 

Bio Hacks

• Classical GFP Mouse
• Mushrooms tasting like chicken
• Bio Piano
• Glowing Hemp plant
• Face Picture from DNA

Body hacks

• THC Chip implant    
  
• Night Vision Droplets
• RFID Implant
• Magnet Implants in the fingers 

Which projects could have been the inspiration for those biohacks? 

What did you like, what did you not?  Any ideas für future biohacks? 

Enjoy it and looking forward to hear from you, 

Jérôme

PCR was originally done by setting up three water baths at different temperatures (annealing 55-65C, extension 72C,  denaturation-boiling), and moving the PCR reaction tubes by hand between water baths.  This is the easiest way to test PCR.  Estimate about 2 min total per cycle, in one hour a PCR amplification can be done.  This gets tedious--sitting there, watching a timer--which is why PCR machines were developed, but you can start trying it without building/buying a machine.

Cheers,

Jim Lund

On Wednesday, August 12, 2020 at 3:33:22 PM UTC-5, NicVied wrote:

Hello everyone,

I am biology teacher and I discovered this DIYbio movement one week ago, and it is amaizing. I am thinking of buying a thermal cycler for me and maybe then bring it somehow to the school.

I would like to know your opinion about the 2 opensource thermal cycler that I have found:

https://shop.tori.st/product/ninjapcr-kit/

I have read about this one and it seems it works well.

http://www.gaudi.ch/GaudiLabs/?page_id=873

This is much cheaper and for me would be perfect buy this one, but I know nothing about this one and it seems too simple...

Futher, I would like to ask if you  think it is a bit crazy and if it's going to be too much
expensive the rest of material, primers, buffers,... If I just want to play in my home.

thanks,

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