Re: [DIYbio] Re: [biocurious] Re: [CCL] lab-on-a-chip

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
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=wOZd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> (And thanks for the good catch, Cathal - we try to protect use of our
> logo and brand, without ruthlessly policing it. I appreciate the
> whole community looking out for us.)

That wasn't me! I'm staying well out of this flame-off. :)
best,
Cathal

On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 14:07:01 +0100
Raymond McCauley <raymond@raymondmccauley.net> wrote:

> Wow, this got really interesting while I was out of Internet reach...
>
> Thomas and Grene Labs received permission to film in the lab and use
> the BioCurious logo incidentally in the video, showing that's where
> the demo was filmed. BioCurious is not currently an official sponsor
> or promoter. Thomas graciously offered to teach a class or make other
> arrangements (provide equipment at a discount, help us standardize
> our current setup, etc.) to say thanks to the lab for having a place
> to film.
>
> (And thanks for the good catch, Cathal - we try to protect use of our
> logo and brand, without ruthlessly policing it. I appreciate the
> whole community looking out for us.)
>
> BioCurious is considered a public venue, and we allow people to film
> with prior arrangement. Reporters need permission. Surreptitious
> filming is not allowed. It's customary to get permission, either
> verbal or formal, when filming people for any commercial use. If I'm
> in the lab, and there are cameras out, and I don't want to be filmed,
> I ask them to stop or I leave. Or I speak to the staff on duty.
>
> If anyone has serious concerns about being misrepresented in a video
> that Grene Labs did, please continue to pursue it with Grene Labs
> directly, but also please let me know.
>
> And, as a matter of course, BioCurious encourages both open and
> commercial projects, and we encourage proper attribution. We don't
> have formal policies on any of this - it's more of a Golden Rule /
> social contract.
>
> I encourage a good, open discussion here, but, hey - keep it civil,
> folks. That's also a BioCurious community value. And the Internet is
> like amber for damned foolishness.
>
> That sounds officious. But I wanted to do the transparent disclosure
> stuff on BioC's involvement.
>
> Now personal opinion:
>
> I'm a funder of the project. I don't know if they can do what they
> say - microfluidics is harder than it first looks, and this sounds
> ambitious.
>
> But I see a crowd-funded biotech project, I'm supporting it. Hell,
> I'm a funder of Glowing Plant, and my personal reservations about the
> approach there are pretty well known.
>
> I'm concerned because some neat projects with potential to move the
> needle are going unfunded. Note the Yovivo! project (disclosure: I'm
> an advisor).
>
> I haven't had a good chance to vet the Grene Labs lab-on-a-chip
> approach. I'm hoping to. I'd like it even better if we do something
> as a community to (politely) ask probing questions, and to challenge
> technical and legal assumptions. Maybe we can get Thomas to do an
> open meeting on that, in addition to a class, if we haven't welcomed
> him too warmly already.
>
> Final personal thought - listing the device as educational is not a
> dodge, but standard guidance and legal practice to help keep it from
> being used for diagnostics or medical use. Marketing a crowd-funded
> project as having potential in this area, without over-promising , is
> just trying to do some good world - saving.
>
> And, see, I almost got through this entire thing without saying
> anything about white male privilege.
>
> Yours,
> Raymond
> On Nov 22, 2013 6:49 AM, "Matthew Harbowy" <hbergeronx@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > One more point.
> >
> >
> > http://www.mddionline.com/article/developing-medical-devices-consumer-driven-market
> >
> > It takes 2-3 years to develop a medical device and gather all the
> > necessary testing and approvals. There's no way in hell you can get
> > devices out and usable to developing nations in less than a year,
> > so your claim on the $125 reward and its delivery schedule is
> > completely unrealistic. Testing unapproved devices on poor nations
> > is unethical at best, abusive and immoral and yes, racist and
> > classist at worst.
> >
> > Raymond should be concerned that the FDA doesn't order a cease and
> > desist for such a suggestion that you might market an unapproved
> > medical device with the help of BioCurious.
> >
> > Matt