Testosterone levels in the body are regulated via negative feedback loop such that testosterone itself inhibits leidig( probably misspelled) cells in the testicles from producing testosterone. So one of the first things that will happen when you either give yourself exogenous testosterone or take something if you can find it that truly increases production is a decrease endogenous production . This accounts for the shrinkage and testicle size during a testosterone cycle .
and your own production will shut down to zero as long as the level of testosterone in your blood is higher then your natural setpoint . so there's that to figure out.
I too look high and low for the thing that would increase my testosterone but failed. I haven't looked in this area in a while but last time I looked it was all about selective androgen receptor modulators SARMs. these molecules do not act like testosterone but rather interact with the testosterone receptor to increase ligand binding or other mechanism such that the testosterone you do have seems to have a greater effect so you end up having more of a testosterone effect with the same amount of testosterone . I believe though I may not remember this correctly, the increased effect is only the anabolic and not the androgenic effects of testosterone. This of course is a huge advantage over testosterone itself because it avoids most of the androgenic effects.
.one drug that I recall was developed and they sought FDA approval in what seems to me like the hardest possible way, by proposing it as a drug to combat cachexia in lung cancer . It does not reach its endpoint in phase 3 trials and was not proceed further. however by then many a bodybuilder had gotten their hands on it as a laboratory chemical from one of the many's chemical supply companies and there were lots of testimonials online and even meticulous instructions on how to use it because they'll claimed it works for muscle gain though it may not be fully effective in the worst possible case of muscle wasting which is cachexia with lung cancer.
I believe it was called ostarine. you now see over-the-counter nutritional supplements claiming to have this as an ingredient but do not be fooled. I am sure there are newer ones maybe even one that has been approved .
Finally, testosterone is not the only anabolic hormone . Of course, you have a growth hormone which I don't recommend Because I have done battle with the insurance companies to have growth hormone paid for. And it was an epic battle.
Categories included myostatin inhibitors, Anabolic Catabolic transforming agents and Proteasome Inhibitors, and more. Myostatin is an enzyme that we produce which breaks down muscle. the balance between this and muscle synthesis tips negatively as you get older and you get sarcopenia which is a fancy name for age related muscle wasting. there is one potent inhibitor of this which you have to take by injection is completely not FDA approved. again do not believe anything that tells you that it is a myostatin inhibitor as a supplement.
nothing that I know of increases to salsa production like resistance exercise especially if you do it in the morning . If you smoke cigarettes , smoking cessation is probably the most potent thing you can do.
On March 28, 2021 6:22:30 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
What I've always been interested in from a "DIYBio/Chemistry"standpoint is a compound that would increase testosterone productionendogenously. I've been reading for a few years now in regards tothis and have had conversations with the MD that tried to bringEnclomiphene (Androxal) to market a few years ago. Sadly they failedPhase 3 trials not because the data looked poor, but because theychose the wrong end-point criteria. They appeared to not trackimprovement of symptoms associated with secondary hypogonadism, andinstead focused on the preservation of spermatogenesis with concurrentincreases in total testosterone.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clomifene has been used for decades asa fertility drug and off-label by many endos to treat low testosteronein men. It targets the estrogen receptor that controls negativefeedback on the pituitary for the production of gonadotropins (LH andFSH) and subsequent increase in testosterone in the testes byLuteinizing Hormone.One can take Clomid for a boost in testosterone, but a majority of mendon't report feeling great on it because of the estrogenic sideeffects. Some do however. I think endo's over-prescribe and go with50mg every other day wherein 12.5mg every other day would give a boostof testosterone without E2 side effects.Drop the agonistic enantiomer (zuclomiphene) and stick with theantagonist (enclomiphene) and you'd get a nice easy pill to take thatboosted testosterone endogenously, preserved spermatogenesis, andpotentially made hypogonadal men feel better without the need forgels/injections for life.On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 12:42 AM Frank <fgarcia0007@gmail.com> wrote:in this discussion about testosterone did we mention how to properly test one's testosterone? If not, let's start with the fact that testosterone levels fluctuate throughout the day - diurnal variation - with peak levels seen in the morning. Testing is supposed to be done close to 11 am.Second, test production is dynamic and can be measurably affected by various factors such as nutrition, alcohol, smoking, sleep, exercise, and sex. So it's important to get tested under typical condition when one of these factors isn't overtly present.Third, total serum testosterone does not equal usable testosterone which is why this test by itself may not be the most meaningful. Total serum testosterone consists of a) free testosterone (2%–3%), b) testosterone bound to a carrier molecule called sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) (45%), and c) testosterone bound to albumin (−50%). Testosterone bound to SHBG is not available and might as well not be there. Testosterone bound to albumin is available, and together with free testosterone is termed bioavailable testosterone. The most precise type of testosterone testing is usually not offered due to expense. But at least bioavailable test, shbg testosterone, and free testosterone are tests that anyone can get by asking. I would ask for these.------ Original Message ------From: "Tom De Medts" <tdmedts@gmail.com>To: "DIYbio" <diybio@googlegroups.com>Sent: 3/26/2021 2:42:05 PMSubject: [DIYbio] Continuing the Testosterone discussionHey Dakota and Frank et al.,I got back my testosterone test results and it reads:LOINC Code 2986-8Test Testosterone, Total-TestosteroneResult 341Reference Range 264-916 ng/dLAbnormal Flag normalDate Performed 3/26/2021I am assuming with these results:I do not need testosterone supplementation, and by extensionI could not request / demand my PCP to fill a testosterone prescription to bump up levels, or do I?LOINC Code 2986-8Test Testosterone, Total-TestosteroneResult 343Reference Range 264-916 ng/dLAbnormal Flag normalDate Performed 3/25/2021From my online searches, it appears there is no hard and fast rule about serum levels below which supplementation may be allowed in the current US medical insurance / health care set-up. Guidelines vary from 300 -350 ng/dL as the low threshold.PatientFirst's 2986-8 test code goes even lower at 264 ng/dL! Not sure why...I started to wonder whether this level changes across different racial / ethnic human male sub-populations. I then came across this paper - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4327897/ - which shows how there is a difference in T between black and white male sub-populations.So I wonder whether 264 is beyond or within range for my specific genetics!My online search results that I scanned quickly:https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20181005/should-men-with-symptoms-of-low-testosterone-but-without-hypogonadism-be-prescribed-testosterone-thttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255853/https://www.ifm.org/news-insights/testosterone-supplement/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255853/https://www.auanet.org/guidelines/testosterone-deficiency-guidelineThanks!I wish you all a fun Friday and a nice weekend.Cheers,TomOn Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 10:51 AM Tom De Medts <tdmedts@gmail.com> wrote:Super useful insights, thanks again, Dakota and Frank.Cheers,TomOn Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 7:50 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:Yeah not many Wallmarts and Costco's around here with the 10cc but Inever tried. Endo doing it electronic for probably this reason. Ihave no interest in utilizing more than I'm prescribed right now, it'sjust that, this dose still hasn't relieved all issues. I thinkestradiol is the big issue at this point. I guess continuallydropping adipose tissue is all I can do. I want something moreandrogenic though.On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 7:07 PM Frank <fgarcia0007@gmail.com> wrote:Btw in my experience CVS is the worst about filling testosterone prescriptions . They will take a 10 mL prescription and tell you that they have to give it to u in 1cc allotments because it's a controlled substance . they also charge more than any other pharmacy for that and everything else. You might want to consider getting a prescription but not using insurance to pay for it because it's really not that expensive especially if you use a coupon from good RX and then they cannot do anything but give you the full prescription since you are payingOn January 14, 2021 6:44:01 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:I'd talk for days about hormones. That website is awesome, thanksFrank. I ended up finding a urologist via CVS who runs a men's clinicon the side but I can't seem to get him to take over my insurancecovered TRT because...I can't even get an appointment with him. It'ssuper frustrating being on TRT after 4 endos, and the one who finallyagreed to treat me doesn't believe in AI's or hCG.I'm a keep this thread rolling with the hijack if that's ok Frank lol.I don't know why there isn't a crowd-sourced diagnostic platform tohelp people (not give medical advice) but give "ideas" about what totest or what may be a root cause.https://imgur.com/a/FpWVqUeThat was my development on TRT. I basically went from 0 facial hairand body hair my entire life to a beard in 10 months, I consider thatI'm finishing puberty at 33. Psychologically it's fucked me. Sciencethe only thing that kept me alive.I was diagnosed with normosmic idiopathic hypogonadotropichypogonadism but I don't think that's the case. I agree withhypogonadism without a known cause...but I don't think it's Kallmannsyndrome at all. I KNOW there is something wrong with my sympatheticnervous system because I've been in fight-or-flight mode since 5 yearsold, and nothing horrific happened.I've been pouring sweat since 5/6 years old after a Chicken Poxinfection. My hands are dripping liquid as I write this...and there'sno reason for that.Always had thermal dysregulation, always felt hot, feet and hands coldsweat. Went from skinny as a rail as a track athlete to obese (withthat visceral fat), insulin resistant, metabolic syndrome,dyslipidemia, heart issues, dermatographia, spider veins everywhere,massive stretch marks.I've just felt like I have been high on adrenaline/cortisol my entirelife, and never able to relax, and it took a toll. But...my cortisolalways comes back normal, as did my catecholamines.Sympathetic nervous system will shut down GI movement, and I also hadhorrible GI bleeding and constipation, with joint aches (firsttestosterone was 171ng/dL with a 7 total estradiol, both below rangeand bottom of range).TRT my GI bleeding went away within 48 hours after 5 years of bleeding(never did a colonoscopy), joint pain went away (finally hadestrogen), lipids normalized, insulin normalized, blood sugarnormalized.Only thing is I still have hyperhidrosis for no reason, and I feelanxious all the time and had a few bouts of mania/psychosis on TRT.Idk if my thyroid is fucked or my adrenals are fucked or I have atumor somewhere since 5 years old or what.Well maybe someone smarter than me in this can help. I've just felttired...forever.On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:09 PM Frank <fgarcia0007@gmail.com> wrote:To better answer the question that you actually asked, yes the testosterone that I've taken has always been intramuscular and by prescription although I have definitely taken my shot at getting testosterone without a prescription. I would not recommend it.there is a way to discover what doctors in your area are likely to prescribe testosterone to you . The Medicare payment database is made available through an organization called propublica . heres a link to the resource with testosterone selected. https://projects.propublica.org/checkup/drugs/8883 just sort results by state and look up your state and you'll see the top testosterone prescribing doctors.------ Original Message ------From: "Tom De Medts" <tdmedts@gmail.com>To: "DIYbio" <diybio@googlegroups.com>Sent: 1/13/2021 3:23:43 PMSubject: Re: Re[2]: [DIYbio] How does one hire a bio lab technician for consulting?@ Dakota - Is your testosterone cypionate a prescription intra-muscular injection? And is it possible to procure this without a prescription?I have stubborn abdominal visceral fat that just will not go away to the point that exercising with that objective has led to multiple ligaments tears of the knees,at least 3 vertebral disc wear requiring future surgery, bad low-back with very limited flexibility, displacement of cervical vertebrae etc.I've heard that testosterone injections generally help with healing better and faster, is this true?Also, my testosterone levels were normal in my recent blood test, but I wonder whether its levels vary just as levels of most female hormones cycle up and down? Perhaps my androgen levelsseem OK in a snapshot, but not if followed as a time course? Like some days, in the morning especially, my voice will be deeper. And other times, my voice will sound less deep, a little more squeaky. As a non-medical biologist, I would not venture to hypothesize if these are all related or not. So I'm just thinking aloud and throwing out these observations.Any suggestions / advice is welcome...@ Frank and Dakota, this is not at all an effort to hijack your discussion. Sorry if this is going off on a slight tangent, happy to start a new thread if you wish...Thank you, in advance.Cheers,TdMOn Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 1:09 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:Seems like you have a solid reason. Apologies for projecting thenotion of vanity on your decisions. Outside of anti-aging clinics ortreating rare diseases I'm not sure who offers treatments like thiswith stem cells. How you separate who is legit from a quack, no ideaeither. I'm not even sure what FDA approved stem cell treatmentsthere are.I can see the allure of anabolic steroids, I'm just on testosteronecypionate now and it's reversed all sorts of problems I've had myentire life overnight.Steroids wouldn't help with your bone loss and teeth problems?They're designed to help fight osteoporosis.On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:09 AM Frank <fgarcia0007@gmail.com> wrote:thanks for the message and for being concerned. I am familiar with bodydysmorphia more as an observer than a suffer. waaaaay back when I wasyoung I did my stint with body building and steroids. I'm lucky that itdid not turn into an addiction for me. I have friends who did not fareso well. One of them , a radiologist with whom I attended medical schooldied at the age of 31 from a massive heart attack resulting fromcardiomegaly.Today I am the poster child for just about every damn age-relateddegenerative condition, I had three artificial intervertebral disks inmy neck (before they were approved) due too herniated disks. The veinsin my legs are basically useless forcing me to wear compression socksalways. I got Halux Valgus (bunions) in both feet almost overnight, andwhile i have no cavities, I do have chronic aggressive periodontaldisease with bone loss. There's more but i'll hold off. two of myconditions have been shown to respond and even resolve with stem celltherapy. With periodontitis, stem cell injections right on the recedingedge of the bone in a matrix that keeps them there for a little whilesignificantly stimulates not just bone but all the lost tissues to grow.That treatment is actually in practice but it costs a fortune and I'mabout to loose 4 teeth if i don't act soon,.the other which i have mentioned is more of a problem with even less ofa solution but in which stem cells have shown remarkable efficacy..Believe me i have no thing about wanting to inject stem cells forvanity. I would love to not have to go through all this trouble, So nodanger of me doing this just for th hell of it.To your other point, I am absolutely into anti aging but in a true way,not just superficially. If i had the money i would have a protocol formyself that attacks some of the key drives and pay people to force meto do things like intermittent fasting, being in bed by midnight, andexercising consistently. that right there is has more impact than justabout any single drug. Then I'd buy myself a plasmapheresis machine, andget my hands on 4 or 5 of the molecules in this list:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c79BsB8ooKkefmKLNRwTj9F1grkyrEN0_vwwuR3gFmA/edit?usp=sharingso my metric for "youthfulness" would not be things like wrinkles butrather LDL/HDL ratio, GFR, C-reactive protein, HBAC, blood pressure,physical strength, cognitive performance, etc.------ Original Message ------From: "Dakota Hamill" <dkotes@gmail.com>To: "diybio@googlegroups.com" <diybio@googlegroups.com>Sent: 1/12/2021 9:45:09 PMSubject: Re: [DIYbio] How does one hire a bio lab technician forconsulting?I think you have an interesting project idea from your previous postsand literature research, but it seems like you'll run into a number ofissues. I hesitate to ask the "why" of why you want to re-injectadipocyte stem-cells back into yourself because usually people thatwant to do something like this have reasons no one else can talk themout of.Not judging though, because I have some serious pathological bodydysmorphia issues from a rare endocrine disorder, and I'm onendocrinologist supervised treatment, but it never feels like enough.I assume this is what it feels like to be anorexic or obsessed withplastic surgery. People see things about themselves no one else does.If you're dead set on it, you're probably going to have to do ityourself. That's going to make it difficult and expensive, anddangerous. You could die from an infection or immune response. Iassume everyone has a "right" to self-treat themselves, but to whatextent another may be liable for manslaughter if it goes awry, I haveno idea.What's your end measurable of it "working"? Never aging? Nowrinkles? No cellulite? You're going to inject it all over your entirebody that's covered with fat tissue?Skip the headache/lawsuit/hospital bill of doing it yourself if you'redead-set on it and talk tohttps://www.bostonstemcell.com/stem-cell-therapy/fat-graft/ at leastyou can sue a doctor if it goes awry. $900-$6,000 and only one googleaway!Good luck hope you find what you're looking for.On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 4:37 PM Frank <fgarcia0007@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>> As you know I am attempting to produce an sample of viable fat stem cells suitable for personal medical use, on my own, and on a budget. At this point I think I understand the salient biological and medical issues but I am lacking hands on laboratory know-how.> I looked into utilizing a community biospace but they are nonexistent close by or not interested in what I'm doing. Renting space in a biolab is too expensive.> So I was thinking that a way to accomplish this might be to hire as a consultant an experienced lab technician who has done all of the parts of what I'm attempting to do.> they would evaluate the protocol I'm gonna follow , tell me what to expect and about pitfalls, make sure i know all needed materials and equipment, and walk me through it. They could also tell me were I can use cheaper equipment alternatives .>> So my question to this group: are biolab tech folks hired for this sort of thing? Does someone doing stem cell culturing at a biotech company ever moonlight to make extra money? If so is there a preferred source for such a consultant like a forum or classified?>> --> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. 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