Re: [DIYbio] Fwd: An intriguing example of working, medical DIYBio

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 1:40 AM, Michael Turner
<michael.eugene.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Michael Turner wrote:
>>> > An intriguing example of DIYBio,
>>>
>>> Given that he's only taken over a med-tech/nurse job for himself, and
>>> isn't doing any actual biology, the distinction "DIYmed" makes more
>>> sense here.
>>
>> I don't see your point. Are you saying you are not interested in it
>> because it can be given a more specific label?
>
> I didn't say I wasn't interested. As for "more specific label", no, I
> mean more appropriate label.
>
> - Biology is a science.
> - Biotech is an engineering discipline.
> - The practice of medicine is neither, though uses results from both.
>
> Psychiatry, for example, is a medical specialty. Would you say that
> someone who is doing amateur psychoanalysis on his friends was doing
> "DIYbio"?

Yes. The goal is specific to a biological organism.

>
>>> Medical economics is strange, and can dramatically distort the markets
>>> of services like dialysis, which costs about $77K per patient year in
>>> the U.S., with about 1 patient in 10 dying anyway, annually.
>>
>> There seems to be a gap between those who make minimum wage working
>> full time (and therefore do not qualify for medical assistance from
>> the government, something about being above a minimum income), and
>> those who have a higher salary or possibly insurance that can cover
>> the procedure. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who knows
>> anything about what people "in the gap" do. Do they just choose to
>> drop dead ?? or does the government pay for anyone that asks for
>> dialysis?
>
> I think dialysis is rationed in the U.S. and has been for a long time.
> I don't know how the patient's payments are calculated; I was only
> referring to costs, which aren't the same thing. Since this guy is
> supposedly doing his own dialysis, his "price" = his cost.
>
>>> in purchasing power terms) from generally lower costs in China, it's
>>> possible this guy has given the world a huge breakthrough.
>>
>> Nope, actually the first dialysis machine was a washing machine and
>> some cans from a kitchen-- this guy is certainly not the first.
>>
>> "Dr. Willem Kolff, a Dutch physician, constructed the first working
>> dialyzer in 1943 during the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands.[5] Due
>> to the scarcity of available resources, Kolff had to improvise and
>> build the initial machine using sausage casings, beverage cans, a
>> washing machine, and various other items that were available at the
>> time."
>
> If I understand the NYT obit's use of the term "50 yards of sausage
> casing", the resulting contraption hardly looks like something you
> could put together out of a few kitchen appliances and bits of scrap.
> It's frickin' enormous, for one thing.
>
> http://postmanpatel.blogspot.jp/2009/02/inventor-of-kidney-dialysis-machine-in.html
>
> Just because they improvised on some parts doesn't mean it wasn't a
> significant engineering effort, well beyond the scope of what's
> claimed in the South China Post article: "anybody with a high school
> education."
>
>>> (1) He'd was MISdiagnosed with total renal failure, and has failed to
>>> kill himself with amateur treatment for a condition he actually
>>> doesn't have.
>>
>> I don't see how misdiagnosis is relevant in this case. The article
>> wasn't about "... and he's not dead yet, therefore the treatment must
>> be working." Instead, it was about the fact that he even bothered, I
>> think.
>
> No, it claims more than that: that he was sick, that he "bothered,"
> AND he succeeded.
>
> Absent independent verification of the claim, this might only be more
> of the kind of story that passes for hard news in the developing
> world.


Simply using google on the keywords DIY dialysis brings up a few more
slightly interesting stories:

'DIY' kidney machine saves girl

A baby dying from kidney failure was saved when her doctor designed
and built her a dialysis machine from scratch in his garage.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7542404.stm



Chinese farmers set up DIY dialysis clinic in battle to reform
crumbling healthcare system

Ten poor Chinese farmers who set up a do-it-yourself kidney dialysis
clinic because they were too poor to afford hospital care have become
a cause celebre in the battle to reform China's crumbling public
health system.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/5165350/Chinese-farmers-set-up-DIY-dialysis-clinic-in-battle-to-reform-crumbling-healthcare-system.html

--
-Nathan

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