Re: [DIYbio] Re: Genetic engineering at home

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Makes no difference what vector you use. AAV won't trigger as much of an
immune response to the *viral vector*, but once cells start expressing a
foreign protein like GFP, the body will start attacking them as if they
are infected with a virus, no matter what method you use to get the DNA
in there.

The few exceptions (loosely) are things like Neurons and Muscles, which
the body tries to avoid attacking even for immunological reasons..but
which would be even worse than skin if the body *does* attack anyway. So
don't go there.

My expectation in general for gene therapy is that if the introduced
protein is entirely foreign (and not, for example, a similar but
better-functionality version of a natural human protein), you should
expect the immune system to destroy transformed cells sometime after
transformation. Whether this manifests as a bad itch and redness, or
loss of a patch of skin to infected necrotic tissue, is just a matter of
scale!

Your eyes, if you want infrared-vision, are actually a potentially safe
place to play, because the immune system *might* give eyes a free pass.
But then you're risking eye cancer, and the infrared vision probably
won't happen anyway, because vision is about more than just receptors;
you also need your optic nerve to deliver your receptor signal to the
brain in a way that's distinguishable from other colours, and I'm not
convinced that's within our technology right now unless engineering
germline/embryos (eg. before their brain learns to distinguish signals
and colours).

All of which is beside the basic point that you shouldn't hack your own
genes. We have the technology but not the skill; nobody sensible should
be offering gene therapy for anything but important medical applications
like cancer therapy or for vision loss. It's not worth the risk of
cancer or necrosis just to have a GFP tattoo when you could just get
fluorescent tattoo dye and get the same effect (and probably better
quantum yield!).

On 31/12/13 22:27, Mega [Andreas Stuermer] wrote:
> If the person would have chosen adeno-asssociated virus instead of
> adenovirus, that shouldn't led to necrosis and should (in theory) be
> perfectly safe, right?
>
> Only problem will be, skin cells renew very often. After, say, 4 weeks
> there will hardly be GFP marked cells anymore because they got replaced by
> stem cells. Or are the stem cells in reach to be transfected too? Then it
> would be a permanent tatoo.
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:00:38 PM UTC+1, Cathal Garvey (Phone) wrote:
>>
>> Also, I have seen a phonecam shot of an alleged GFP "tattoo" where someone
>> jabbed themselves with an Adenoviral gfp vector. I say "Alleged" because I
>> can't imagine that working for more than an hour or so before going
>> necrotic from immune rejection.
>>
>> Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2013 10:10 PM, "Patrik D&apos;haeseleer" <pat...@gmail.com<javascript:>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I bet it's only a matter of time before someone tries to give themselves
>>> a GFP tattoo with a gene gun though...
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's already started happening, at least academically:
>>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2855251/
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>

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