Re: [DIYbio] patents

Just to make something exorbitantly clear: Provisional patents CAN NOT be seen by the public. 

Not only that, they can be edited. While the only get saved by the USPTO for 1 year, they are not publicized in ANY way. It is merely a time stamp for your idea that you can send into the patent office. I'm not sure how that would apply to international patents, but - 

if there is anyone who fears disclosing their idea by submitting a provisional patent, do not worry.

-SG

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 9:33 AM, Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:

Patents are interesting.  It's a deal with the public to divulge your secret, and in return, get exclusive access to profit from it for ~30 years.  Early on in the ol DIYBio journey I was a huge fan of open source everything.  Can't people see that science and engineering are THE things that will elevate human-kind to a better standard of living?  Healthcare, entertainment, travel, etc, all stem from progression in the sciences.  So naturally, everything that makes that process faster should be free and open!!  I was naive.  

That said, I understand very clearly now why someone would want to patent something.  A utopian vision for humankind won't be realized in our lifetime, and dare I say, never will be.  When you or a team of people bust their asses, sweat, sacrifice money, time, and quality of life, shouldn't you "get" something in return for that?

If there is no incentive to do hard, risky work, I don't know who will do it.  Not many scientific aristocrats anymore.  After a few years in the drug-discovery field, I can say I don't want to "give" what we've been working on away for free, nor make it open source.  Simply being a private company means you have a fiduciary duty to your investors, and the company.

I'm rambling a bit now, didn't mean to turn this into a private vs open conversation.  If you're thinking of a patent read as many similar ones in the field as you can.  Write as much as you can in succinct sentences as you can, then pay a lawyer $5-$10k for a provisional (which is realistically what it will cost for a good one).  But, most of the provisional will be the "real" patent anyway, it's not like it's just simply a crappy first draft you get away with for $100.

Many patents don't make money, so there's that to keep in mind as well.  We had many patent lawyers say just keep it a trade-secret until you find a novel chemical scaffold (drug lead) then patent that.  Compositions of matter are a lot easier to get in the chemistry field because, you can't argue the 3D arrangement of atoms in a molecule.

I think a healthy mix of DIY with open sharing of information and articles coupled with entrepreneurial "capitalist" drive will make a few decent success stories.  We are far from one, but I enjoyed seeing how OpenPCR went from threads on here to a real company.  Likewise, I think Ethan Perlstein (who I believe used to post on here) did actually make a FULLY open company/non-profit that is doing highly risky drug discovery and from what I can see, is doing well.

There are always outliers that can make something work that everyone said couldn't.

Do what makes you happy first, then what makes you money, and if it's patentable, go for it.  That way when you strike it rich you can put money back into more science research or science startups!  

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:06 PM, John Griessen <john@industromatic.com> wrote:

On 05/29/2018 09:41 AM, Matt Lawes wrote:

It's hard for me to see how Indiebio / DIYbio is able to benefit from patents unless late stage development of a near market product. Trade secrets carry you through the ideation phases. Patent your product, not your idea, when you have a strategic partner with deep pockets.
Thoughts, comment?

Sounds right to me.  So far, all of the culture shock electroporator is free-published and based on patent expired designs
plus today's chips and micropython FOSS.  If it stumbles on something that is mainstream and needing patent, that will be obvious
only after lots of profit has already been made.  Maybe some add-ons to an electroporator will be kept as trade secrets, but only
if they stand alone somehow, since the docs to culture shock are licensed TAPR.

I see trademark as maybe useful and possibly design patent for a safety certified system in a case, fully assembled that educator
purchasing agents can buy...but there won't be anything patentable inside except maybe software that's nifty.

I think providing lab gear kits at low prices and later, fully assembled, safety tested to lab standard UL 61010,
with trademarks on the molded case will protect the case from knock-offs some, and allow niche market sales and income.
The core computer board for the culture shock electroporator can be used for a PCR, liquid handler, clean flow bench controller, centrifuge controller, spectrometer controller, etc. and that along with the HV board can do an electrophoresis supply with only
a different case and safety interlocks, gel tray for transillumination, etc.  The same core computer board could easily control
a scanner to read out the progress in the electrophoresis gel tray as it goes with a few parts as are used in optical disc drives.

Most of the above can be better protected by trademark than patent, and yet maybe some part of one could do a patent after it sells enough.

--
John

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