Re: [DIYbio] Re: Looking for partner or group for DIY TPE

That's a good point, what is rejuvenation? 

For me it's the actual "running back" of the body clock. To qualify as rejuvenation, an intervention should be able to postpone indefinitely aging if repeated sufficiently enough. So it's different than just doing exercise and be in better shape for example.

I have a problem with general biomarkers like insulin sensitivity etc,... The reason is basically this: https://michaellustgarten.com/2020/06/26/blood-test-analysis-in-a-100-year-old-subject/ If you look at the blood work of this subject, it would quite good even for a 40 year old. and yet, I'm certain if I see this subject, I will know right away he/she is definitely NOT a 40 years old. 

So we need a biomarker that is as closely related to chronological age as possible. And, for all its potential implementation issues, epigenetic age is so far the closest to the mark, with a correlation of 0.94 or even better for the latest peer-reviewed iterations. That's fracking good. And it's not just a "single" biomarker, it's a composite from hundreds of methylation sites across the genome, corresponding to hundreds of different gene expression changes.

Now the mirror test is a good one, but it will take a pretty good effect to show up with confidence, something I'm not sure TPE would do (or we definitely would have heard about it).

Anyway, multiple approaches are good, and I agree those fancy tests are expensive still :)

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 21:36, Frank Garcia <fgarc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I guess we need to define rejuvenation then. the biomarker tests in the experiment each measures one tiny piece of the physiological state which, depending on the direction in which the marker changed, indicates a physiological state that more closely resembles that of a younger organism. I'm not sure (maybe i'm wrong) there is a universally accepted definition of rejuvenation. and there certainly isn't any single market that proves rejuvenation. It's simply too complex for that to ever be the case. It's more like pick your basket of markers of aging and test them over a period of time and see which way they are heading.  I personally think any markers of rejuvenation has to include those that measure the physiological dirvers of age -related disease and deterioration such as insulin sensitivity, fibrotic markers, resting heart rate, muscle stem cells, mitochondrial markers, cholesterol trajectory, cardiac output efficiency, C-reactive protein, just to name a few out of a million.  In the study, muscle anabolism vs catabolism is in fact a good aging biomarker

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 2:20:11 AM UTC-4 Raph N wrote:

The problem with the biomarkers used in the experiment is that they can't prove rejuvenation.  For example we know exercise improve lots of biomarkers, yet it does not rejuvenate you, or you could exercise your way to immortality. 

As far as we know epigenetic clock is the best marker of biological age. 

Raphael <rap...@gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 01:50 Frank Garcia <fgarc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know too much about the epigenetic tests however it might be useful for you to take a look at the biomarker tests that were used in the experiment that I posted which started this discussion. They did pretty rigorous testing of multiple systems and tissues to determine efficacy.

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