Re: [DIYbio] Counter Culture Labs + BioCurious do iGEM: Real Vegan Cheese!

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
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=wOG4
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=dnoA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
To be fair, if you guys were that worried about Muufri, you could have
just discussed the matter with them. They've been having the exact same
finger-biting exercise about patenting, fair use and panveganism, so
creating artificial divisions and starting to think competitively
doesn't really do anyone any favours.

On 04/07/14 10:46, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
> On Thursday, July 3, 2014 6:39:28 AM UTC-7, Cathal Garvey wrote:
>>
>> OTOH, you guys are planning to patent, which confuses me:
>> https://wiki.realvegancheese.org/index.php/Real_Vegan_Cheese
>>
>> "We plan to patent and abandon to keep this technology free for everyone"
>>
>> ..it's cool that you want to abandon it, but isn't that what prior art
>> is for, instead? And, by registering a patent in the first place, you're
>> creating a disincentive to those who don't *know* that you've abandoned
>> the patent.
>>
>> Worse, if the patent is held by a legal entity or person who later goes
>> bankrupt or into liquidation, the patents may be forcibly sold to
>> someone who'll quite happily use them to destroy others' livelihoods and
>> innovations.
>>
>> There *is* scope for using patents in an open-source way, by using
>> licenses like the DPL that establish an irrevocable license for use and
>> re-use, but it would be my view that the stultifying impact of even
>> registering patents, and the absence of a "patent metadata" search
>> function for people to know that it's DPL licensed, still makes it a net
>> lose versus simply registering public prior art.
>>
>
> We've actually had some lengthy discussions on how to best make sure that
> this technology would stay open to anyone wanting to use it. Spurred on
> partially by not knowing which way the Muufri team would swing on this.
>
> We have looked at the DPL pretty closely, and unfortunately the current
> incarnation is NOT irrevocable. So even if we were to enter something into
> the DPL, if we happen to go bust a couple years down the line and the
> patent falls into someone else's hands, they'd be free to close it back up
> again. Also, the DPL doesn't just exclude patent trolls and multinationals
> with huge patent portfolios - it would also exclude small independent
> inventors who own one or two patents and who are not ready to give them
> away under the DPL. If we really want to make sure this technology is open
> to all, I think it really should be open to *all*
>
> Purely relying on published prior art isn't really a solution either,
> because having prior art does not guarantee that the patent examiner will
> even bother to do a google search if someone else tries to patent your idea
> from under you. It does provide you with ammunition to challenge a patent
> in court, but that's usually not much of an option for us small fry.
>
> The "file and abandon" approach seems to be the best way to force the USPTO
> to actually see the prior art. Essentially, you have to go all the way to
> filing a patent application, and then you formally abandon the application.
> The effect is that the application is now permanently entered into the
> USPTO's own internal database, and that it *will* show up if anyone else
> tries to patent it.
>
> The drawback is that you have to put in all the time, effort and money to
> file a full patent application. And then when you're ready to get a patent,
> you just tear it all up. So it's actually a much bigger commitment than
> just publishing your work on a wiki to stake your claim at prior art.
>
> Patrik
>

--
T: @onetruecathal, @IndieBBDNA
P: +353876363185
W: http://indiebiotech.com