Re: [DIYbio] Wikipedia clean up

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Lisa Thalheim <lthalheim@googlemail.com> wrote:
[snip intro]
> * DIYBio, biohacking, biopunk, and amateur biology, I think, are not
> interchangeable. You could try to construe them as slightly different
> aspects of a larger concept, but I'm not quite sure what that would
> be.

I agree. The current article makes DIYbio sound like an affiliation
("DIYbio was founded by Mackenzie Cowell and Jason Bobe.[1] DIYbio is
a network[2] of individuals...").

My sense of biohacking is that biohackers need not partake of the same
network, even if the overlap might be 85%+ at this point. Language
barriers, for example, might make equating the two nonsensical. So I
see a case for separation as well.

I agree with you about biopunk -- it's both an identity and a fiction
genre (and a theme/trope in art as you point out below). Simply
writing in a fiction genre doesn't qualify you for the same identity
-- e.g., William Gibson coined (but hated) the term "cyberpunk" and
described the fictional depiction of cyberspace as an "abomination."
Biopunk cries out for a separate article as well. Maybe two articles
-- you could have a disambiguation page, and have each point to the
other. Admittedly, the last time two biopunk articles were proposed,
it didn't go well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Biopunk#Split

But with what you say below about biopunk as a term in the plastic
arts and in artistic body modification (if that hasn't since become
yet another full-blown plastic art), maybe the case for a biopunk
split is better than it was. Anyway, I've taken down the "merge" tag
for the biopunk article.

I agree with what you say below about amateur biologists -- some
who've had species named after them might shrink in horror from all
three terms.

Finally, what IS the overarching concept? I can't put my finger on it.
It's not Wikipedia's job to do that anyway.

> * It might be a good idea to keep "Biopunk" as a separate article,
> since it is also a literary genre - something that neither biohacking
> nor DIYBio are.

OK, I've removed the merge tagging.

> ... Personally, I would really like to see this
> literary-genre-thing kept out of the biohacking and DIYBio articles,
> simply because the conflation of fiction and fact in biohacking/DIYBio
> is already enough of a problem (especially in media representations).

Perhaps literary genre could kept to mere mentions. If mentioned in
due proportion, the media might clean up its act a little, since the
media reads Wikipedia too. For example, I've just added "biopunk" and
"DIYbio" in a See Also section for the article on biohacking.

> Suggestion for a change to the Biopunk article: Focus it on the
> literary genre and mention that "biopunk" is sometimes also used to
> denote activities of biohacking (link to biohacking article)?

The biopunk article has a section on biohacking. It's quite small, but
-- being the first section -- also prominent. It links to the
biohacking article. The concerned editors might be persuaded that this
is not good. The article seems to enjoy lively collaboration by
editors who know their craft. They might be only too happy to get any
current confusion shipped off to another article.

> * The DIYBio article isn't that bad the way it is as of today.

Thanks to others here. All I did was remove something problematic,
which is now on the talk page in a form that might germinate a number
of other improvements.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:DIYbio#Questionable_.22Examples.22_section

Please feel free to make suggestions on that page, even if you don't
want to sign up as an editor. (Or are you one already? It looks like
*two* of the people doing the work -- Nathan and Bryan -- are already
named Wikipedia editors, which in my haste I didn't notice at the
time.)

> * The biohacking article is pretty awful indeed. Put in very general
> terms, the changes I'd want to make to that one:
[snip]

Wow. When I have an afternoon free. Or somebody. I've copy-pasted all
that to the Talk page for biohacking and formatted it for itemization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Biohacking

> * Transhumanism isn't a part of biohacking in the sense of a
> "belongs-to" relation, but it is in the sense of an "overlaps-with"
> relation.

Yes, some of the first inklings of (biological) transhumanism will
entail (where they haven't already) self-experimentation, some of
which might require biohacking in the present sense of term.

> .... I don't see that transhumanism is a big topic in either
> DIYBio or biohacking, but it has come up here on the list, for
> example. Some of the mails sent to this list by someone named
> "Reason", promoting a clearly transhumanist agenda, may serve as
> references.

Well, maybe. To the extent that mailing lists can be used as
references at all. Which depends on how. If Reason represented a
minority opinion, definitely not. If a notable person in DIYbio said
something about this, however, and it was on a mailing list, it might
be within scope for quoting at least. Wikipedia guidelines have had to
evolve in another hacker "genre" - software - under pressure of the
reality that so much of what's definitive goes on in mailing lists.

> And just because I'm in the mood for some nitpicking, some remarks on
> terminology (responding to Bryan):
[snip]

Bryan?

Regards,
Michael Turner
Project Persephone
1-25-33 Takadanobaba
Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
(+81) 90-5203-8682
turner@projectpersephone.org
http://www.projectpersephone.org/

"Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Michael Turner
> <michael.eugene.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I do Wikipedia cleanups sometimes. Even decorations, like photos. On
>> request, I recently cleaned up
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PechaKucha
>>
>> I'm Yakushima at Wikipedia.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Yakushima
>>
>> But it would help if you could be specific about the changes you'd
>> like to see and the priorities you have for them (ideally ratified on
>> by senior members of this list, in the case of the DIYbio article at
>> least). Then the chore would fit better into my busy schedule, and
>> would feel like less a chore and than a community service.[*]
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michael Turner
>> Project Persephone
>> 1-25-33 Takadanobaba
>> Shinjuku-ku Tokyo 169-0075
>> (+81) 90-5203-8682
>> turner@projectpersephone.org
>> http://www.projectpersephone.org/
>>
>> "Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking outward
>> together in the same direction." -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
>>
>> ---
>>
>> [*] I mean the *good* kind of community service, not the kind that a
>> judge would sentence you to hours of, when convicting you of a
>> misdemeanor.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Bryan Bishop <kanzure@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The wikipedia articles are still awful.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biohacking
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIYbio
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopunk
>>>
>>> At least that last one is somewhat less awful. Anyone want to take cleanup
>>> duty?
>>>
>>> - Bryan
>>> http://heybryan.org/
>>> 1 512 203 0507
>>>
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