Science

On 11/25/20 4:31 AM, 'Charles Maldonado' via DIYbio wrote:
> " Is the light from one particle varying a lot if it is against the far wall of the tube or near wall?"
>
> Unfortunately, I don't know, whether the light is varying or not depending on the position of the particle.


Hi Charles, I asked trying to guess what your goal is -- maybe to separately count particles without counting two as one.


> "Will there be a low low chance of two touching or close to each other?"
>
> I think, the chance will be quite high...

That makes the goal of count-particles-without-counting-two-as-one difficult.


> "Are you wanting to do any hardware or code development, or just "full manual" proof of concept?"
>
> Some code <snip> My initial thought was getting the intensities of my cameras pixels, calculating the average value, normalizing it to some kind of maximum and then plotting it.

But which pixels would mean what if you don't have control over the place they are aiming at, or whether the particles are in that
zone? This seems to be that same goal as is called flow cytometry, which some have charge big bucks for and there are probably
some patents involved if any gear is built for hire. Can you think of anything easier as a goal? It does sound like you want a
microcontroller to read particle sensors and save data to send along when you ask it.

Can the flow rates be very slow and work? What liquid volumes can you pump in a volumetric controlled way?
ONe way to spread the particles out is to make a drawn glass tube thin enough in the middle to let just one or so pass, and keep
the concentration of the suspended cells/particles low enouigh that they don't all rub against each other -- plenty of
interstitial liquid -- so the volume of liquid spreads them out as they go through the narrow drawn part of the tube.

Sounding like what you were thinking yet?

--
John Griessen
industromatic.com Austin TX building lab gear for biologists

I have encountered some "older" person, likely in their 50s or 60s, she raises goats and has sold kefir grains for many years. She does not believe in viruses, or that they have ever been isolated. She does not believe that TEM images are actually of viruses. Apparently due to some quack named Stefan Lanka.

I don't even know where to go from here. Why is this even a possibility in the modern world? I think anyone on this forum is healthy skeptic, or at least overly curious. But I'm left to wonder how common is this type of "denier". I'm left to wonder if I'm suffering "expert bias" and left unable to tolerate explaining such seemingly obvious things. Even given the faults of human researchers, retractions, faked data, complexity of the universe and the ever expanding knowledge and knowledge of a knowledge-gap.

Biohacking is so commonplace to me, in mindset anyway... Nanotech fab hurdles and limitations... Microscopy (and nanoscopy)... I'm concerned that with as much time as I've spent typing to some random facebook thread, that it's a sisyphean effort. That I'm scooping out water from the Titanic with a cup, but it's pouring in through a gaping hole in the lower level that I'll never see (let alone be able to help).

People talk about fixing earth before rocketing to Mars, but is this validation for the desire for near-term interplanetary emigration?

If this was a contaminated environmental culture in the lab, you'd either use a selective agent (antibiotic) or perform serial sub-culturing until you purified your strain of interest.

I'm not looking for answers, but maybe some encouragement. I'm otherwise more interested in social distancing than ever.

This could probably be tackled ("solved") as a bioinformatics problem if you can find and connect the right databases between covid and demographics. 

Large, specific populations of people in the world use saline rinses on a daily basis.  Hindus(*) in India for example will use a neti pot as religious practice to flush their noses (bioinformatics sample populations of 100M+) with arbitrary water quality and locally sourced salt, i.e. dirty ingredients.  Yoga practitioners or new-agey types in America also use a neti pot often with pre-measured saline mix packets.  Correlate that population against covid logs.

Contrary to the previous reply insisting, "the nose is a fragile area, don't tamper there, you can't optimize it," in fact Hindus have been rinsing and sticking things up their nose for thousands of years (go try nostril flossing on your own, hint, don't use minty floss).

(*) I use the term Hindus very generally, it is a broad population with broad set of beliefs & practices.

On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 2:36:55 AM UTC-8 loopd...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

@ Tom

I wrote to some infectious desease experts and virologists.  Perhaps they already have evident knowledge about the effect of salt on Sars-CoV-2. Lets see what happens. greetings

@ J Boogie

I wrote "nosespray, for example".  You can also garglin or inhale the NaCI solution. I just thought of a practical application for everyday life, which is also able to reduce sneezing and nasal congestion (see "study of Fluid Dynamics..." in my mail above). For hygienic reasons and in order not to disturb our complex system too much, I thought of a normal, isotonized seawater spray that you can buy in pharmacies or supermarkets.  It is approved for permanent use and some allergy sufferers use it for a longer period of time.  Personally, therefore, I don't think that it would be extremely dangerous to use.  But who knows, maybe yes?  I will check again.

Thank you very much.

Jochen

j boogie <justin...@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 19. Dez. 2020, 20:37:

The problem is the anatomy of the upper respiratory tract. The nose is kind of a "drain" at the low point. The interior is very complex with a large surface area.  Lets assume you are driving saltwater, saline, or whatever "up" into your respiratory tract. Now you may have possibly transported a virus that is capable of attacking your cells way up in these labyrinthine folds which are very close to the brain. There is an old medical shorthand for this area, its called "the triangle of death", from the corners of the mouth to the bridge of the nose. Deaths have occurred from users of saline irrigation, then transporting waterborne amoebas up there, that otherwise exist in municipal water systems, and don't cause problems because they aren't transported into these areas. This area is NOT designed to be tampered with. If the human body had an area that should be stamped with "no user serviceable parts" it is this area. You cannot optimize this system. It is a diverse ecosystem of immune defenses, from populations of phages, innumerable antibodies, beneficial polysaccharides, etc., etc., all working together.  Instead of external treatment, there are various ways to increase the natural function of this system: things like spicy food, capsacin, pepper, sad movies featuring orphaned puppies, etc. Anything that will induce a tears and mucus production. 

-- 

## Jonathan Cline

## jcl...@ieee.org

## Mobile: +1-805-617-0223

########################

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g9sFXXLJKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbenQxveEm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKjPr2QautI

On Saturday, December 26, 2020 at 3:01:19 PM UTC-8 deacon.d...@gmail.com wrote:

I always find this question rather silly.  RNA is simply a delivery method.  Is the question whether RNA is safe?  The answer is that large doses may trigger inflammatory response.  This is less likely with the modified RNA like Moderna's.  It is generally unlikely with either of them because they tested for it.

If that's not the question, then is the question whether having immunity against COVID-19 Spike protein safe?  Again, most likely yes, and mostly likely far more so than having it with full blown infection.

On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 6:19:04 PM UTC-5 Mike Petersen wrote:

Hello all,
How do you rate the safety of the new Corona vaccines, which are based on the principle of RNA vaccination?
Are there any studies online to read or are they not available to the public?
I wonder if you can realistically assess the risk at this point.
When I think about the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 during the svine flu, where it was not known until years later that it caused narcolepsy in many cases due to an autoimmune reaction, it shows that one should be careful, especially with regard to the long-term effects.
Isn't there a great potential for autoimmune reactions especially with RNA vaccines? Thank you very much for your answers.

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Hi,

@ Tom

I wrote to some infectious desease experts and virologists.  Perhaps they already have evident knowledge about the effect of salt on Sars-CoV-2. Lets see what happens. greetings

@ J Boogie

I wrote "nosespray, for example".  You can also garglin or inhale the NaCI solution. I just thought of a practical application for everyday life, which is also able to reduce sneezing and nasal congestion (see "study of Fluid Dynamics..." in my mail above). For hygienic reasons and in order not to disturb our complex system too much, I thought of a normal, isotonized seawater spray that you can buy in pharmacies or supermarkets.  It is approved for permanent use and some allergy sufferers use it for a longer period of time.  Personally, therefore, I don't think that it would be extremely dangerous to use.  But who knows, maybe yes?  I will check again.

Thank you very much.

Jochen

j boogie <justin...@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 19. Dez. 2020, 20:37:

The problem is the anatomy of the upper respiratory tract. The nose is kind of a "drain" at the low point. The interior is very complex with a large surface area.  Lets assume you are driving saltwater, saline, or whatever "up" into your respiratory tract. Now you may have possibly transported a virus that is capable of attacking your cells way up in these labyrinthine folds which are very close to the brain. There is an old medical shorthand for this area, its called "the triangle of death", from the corners of the mouth to the bridge of the nose. Deaths have occurred from users of saline irrigation, then transporting waterborne amoebas up there, that otherwise exist in municipal water systems, and don't cause problems because they aren't transported into these areas. This area is NOT designed to be tampered with. If the human body had an area that should be stamped with "no user serviceable parts" it is this area. You cannot optimize this system. It is a diverse ecosystem of immune defenses, from populations of phages, innumerable antibodies, beneficial polysaccharides, etc., etc., all working together.  Instead of external treatment, there are various ways to increase the natural function of this system: things like spicy food, capsacin, pepper, sad movies featuring orphaned puppies, etc. Anything that will induce a tears and mucus production. 

I always find this question rather silly.  RNA is simply a delivery method.  Is the question whether RNA is safe?  The answer is that large doses may trigger inflammatory response.  This is less likely with the modified RNA like Moderna's.  It is generally unlikely with either of them because they tested for it.

If that's not the question, then is the question whether having immunity against COVID-19 Spike protein safe?  Again, most likely yes, and mostly likely far more so than having it with full blown infection.

On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 6:19:04 PM UTC-5 Mike Petersen wrote:

Hello all,
How do you rate the safety of the new Corona vaccines, which are based on the principle of RNA vaccination?
Are there any studies online to read or are they not available to the public?
I wonder if you can realistically assess the risk at this point.
When I think about the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 during the svine flu, where it was not known until years later that it caused narcolepsy in many cases due to an autoimmune reaction, it shows that one should be careful, especially with regard to the long-term effects.
Isn't there a great potential for autoimmune reactions especially with RNA vaccines? Thank you very much for your answers.

I have encountered some "older" person, likely in their 50s or 60s, she raises goats and has sold kefir grains for many years. She does not believe in viruses, or that they have ever been isolated. She does not believe that TEM images are actually of viruses. Apparently due to some quack named Stefan Lanka.

I don't even know where to go from here. Why is this even a possibility in the modern world? I think anyone on this forum is healthy skeptic, or at least overly curious. But I'm left to wonder how common is this type of "denier". I'm left to wonder if I'm suffering "expert bias" and left unable to tolerate explaining such seemingly obvious things. Even given the faults of human researchers, retractions, faked data, complexity of the universe and the ever expanding knowledge and knowledge of a knowledge-gap.

Biohacking is so commonplace to me, in mindset anyway... Nanotech fab hurdles and limitations... Microscopy (and nanoscopy)... I'm concerned that with as much time as I've spent typing to some random facebook thread, that it's a sisyphean effort. That I'm scooping out water from the Titanic with a cup, but it's pouring in through a gaping hole in the lower level that I'll never see (let alone be able to help).

People talk about fixing earth before rocketing to Mars, but is this validation for the desire for near-term interplanetary emigration?

If this was a contaminated environmental culture in the lab, you'd either use a selective agent (antibiotic) or perform serial sub-culturing until you purified your strain of interest.

I'm not looking for answers, but maybe some encouragement. I'm otherwise more interested in social distancing than ever.

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Hello all,
How do you rate the safety of the new Corona vaccines, which are based on the principle of RNA vaccination?
Are there any studies online to read or are they not available to the public?
I wonder if you can realistically assess the risk at this point.
When I think about the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 during the svine flu, where it was not known until years later that it caused narcolepsy in many cases due to an autoimmune reaction, it shows that one should be careful, especially with regard to the long-term effects.
Isn't there a great potential for autoimmune reactions especially with RNA vaccines? Thank you very much for your answers.

I do not suffer from atrophied adipose tissue nor anything that is
simply a matter of having insurance. I am very interested in ADSC for
multiple conditions, the most invasive being periodontal bone
regeneration to reverse gum disease gum loss and the least being
subcutaneous applications to reverse fibroproliferative conditions and
rejuvenate aged skin. None of these would be covered by any insurance
that I know of.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Dakota Hamill" <dko...@gmail.com>
To: "diy...@googlegroups.com" <diy...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 12/22/2020 12:12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [DIYbio] Re: An update on my effort to isolate viable
adipose derived stem cells for therapeutic reinjection and a call for
advice

>Maybe you mentioned this in your previous post but is there a specific
>reason why you want to inject yourself with your own adipose stem
>cells? Did you mention a rare disease which causes degradation of
>adipose tissue? I saw in one of the articles a rare disease which
>causes atrophy of one side of the face. I would assume all your care
>would be covered under insurance by actual doctors if this is the
>case. Wish you the best! I understand dealing with doctors can be
>frustrating sometimes.
>
>On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 11:48 AM Frank <fgarc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the questions - which scare me. the answer is that yes i do intend to reinject but only once I have a sound proven protocol and i have followed it successfully. I guess i have not thought of how i wold prove that I have done so.
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "James Clement" <clemen...@gmail.com>
>> To: "DIYbio" <diy...@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: 12/22/2020 10:18:43 AM
>> Subject: [DIYbio] Re: An update on my effort to isolate viable adipose derived stem cells for therapeutic reinjection and a call for advice
>>
>> The subject line uses the term "therapeutic reinjection." Does this mean you're attempting to put the ASCs back into your body? If so, will you be testing the culture prior to injection for endotoxins? Have you planned on measuring the secretome of the cells, since ASCs have a tendency to produce proinflammatory cytokines (ILs 6, 7, 8 & 11, and TNF-alpha)? What is your intended biological endpoint for the therapy?
>>
>> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 11:10:38 AM UTC-5 fgarc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> So I've scoured the internet for papers and guides to nonenzymatic procedures that can be done with simple inexpensive equipment and which yields an usable quantity of fat stem cells that are alive and well.
>>>
>>> I've read a few and must say I'm not entirely sure if I understand the required steps.
>>> Each of the following describes variations of the procedure. Almost all add some fancy element in one of the steps like a commercial kit, specialized syringe with filters built in , or custom made contraptions - get a load of this "Custom-made metallic disarmable pistons, concave cell-adhesive gaskets, closed cubic unit harnessing 3 different-sized sets of blade grids on each luer-lock port, rotating canal at the center of the cube to control the flow of the lipoaspirate, http://links.lww.com/PRSGO/B308).".
>>>
>>>https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-10710-6#Tab3
>>>https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2020/02000/a_3_step_mechanical_digestion_method_to_harvest.27.aspx
>>>https://stemcells-aesthetica.com/isolation-process-of-stem-cells-from-fatty-tissue/
>>>http://www.irvinesci.com/protocol-for-mesenchymal-stem-cell-isolation
>>>
>>> I'd like to use these to put together a protocol that uses no expensive or custom made equipment. I'd like to know if the plating and incubation is necessary and is filtering necessary? Also, is the VSF the end point or can ADSCs be isolated from VSF? any other feedback welcome.
>>
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>
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The internet archive is great but you do miss any updates. The current url is: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2011/08/study-draws-connection-between-narcolepsy-and-influenza.html

Not true for many news services but Stanford, and Emmanuel Mignot, do seem to care about communicating retractions. Take https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2013/12/h1n1-triggered-narcolepsy-may-stem-from-molecular-mimicry-study-finds.html as an example.

Link to the article itself: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21866560/

Also, the narcolepsy you're talking about seemed to be caused by the virus, not the vaccine, as later research suggested.

The article would seem to suggest that narcolepsy is caused by the virus and some, but not all, vaccines. The claim was that the Pandemrix vaccine causes narcolepsy, possibly due to specific adjuvants used. Neither the Pandemrix vaccine nor the suspected adjuvants were apparently included in the vaccines used in China where this study was conducted.

It looks like the narcolepsy rate was ~1 in 16,000. This is 6.25 per 100,000. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcolepsy#Epidemiology rates appear to vary substantially:

0.2 in Israel

6.25

50 in USA

600 in Japan

I'm not going to investigate further but if I had a family history of narcolepsy I would probably want to know which adjuvants are used in each vaccine. Fortunately we should soon have multiple vaccines available.

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 04:31, safrazine <capgras.ph...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Hans, I haven't heard anyone say it better than you did! I wish everyone could communicate it so simply and clearly!

-Ilan

On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 6:37:02 PM UTC-5 Hans Wilms wrote:

You either vaccinate and have a nanoparticle get RNA with a single gene of the virus into your cells, or risk pretty much the same thing happening but with an entire copy of the virus RNA genome. Also the dosage isn't controlled with the virus, and you become a lethal weapon against grandma.

Also, the narcolepsy you're talking about seemed to be caused by the virus, not the vaccine, as later research suggested. 

https://web.archive.org/web/20121001212919/http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2011/august/narcolepsy.html

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 6:19 PM 'Mike Petersen' via DIYbio <diy...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hello all,
How do you rate the safety of the new Corona vaccines, which are based on the principle of RNA vaccination?
Are there any studies online to read or are they not available to the public?
I wonder if you can realistically assess the risk at this point.
When I think about the Pandemrix vaccine in 2009 during the svine flu, where it was not known until years later that it caused narcolepsy in many cases due to an autoimmune reaction, it shows that one should be careful, especially with regard to the long-term effects.
Isn't there a great potential for autoimmune reactions especially with RNA vaccines? Thank you very much for your answers.

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--

-Hans T. Wilms
Cell: 404-322-5824

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