On 5/14/26 17:19, Dakota Hamill wrote: > More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like > there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun. > > I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes. I did an electroporator design up to the testing stage with funding from 6 kickstarter backers and $2k from Bryan Bishop. It's open hardware published on github at https://github.com/kanzure/culture_shock. It is physically in only two prototypes, I have one and Nathan McCorkle has one. The six kickstarter backers would not contribute any time testing and it stalled out for lack of a complete enclosure -- it needed a laptop just to turn on -- no buttons for setup and fire... So, I worked for 6 months for $3k and didn't get to a viable product. Case study complete. Now aiming at RV solar PV battery appliance designs like: on demand teapot, DC microwave oven, DC refrigerators, etc where the wiring between solar PV panel and battery bank is small gauge, easy to wire into a house, easy to repair, and the controller manages batteries of most any kind individually so the user can change them out by messages like "replace cell D8", "cell B3 now has 2 Ampere hours, half its original capacity". Now I'm not planning to release any of those until having a good way to make plastic moldings in 100's. So I'm designing molding equipment also. The 3DP machines have matured and many are available for cheap, so maybe I'll use some of that for enclosure production, but still thinking it will be by 3D printed MOLDS filled by low pressure injection of thermoplastic and with fairly visible mold parting lines done slowly, automated, so the temperatures of the mold go up and down for molding and release. It needs a cheap automated part eject/remove/stack robot also. Anyone heard of progress along those lines so I could buy small plastic moldings in the 100's for about a dollar a piece, instead of make? -- John Griessen Albuquerque NM -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en Learn more at www.diybio.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/33a4495d-66ba-4f5a-acc2-61bc5b0b6be5%40industromatic.com.
Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...
On 4/29/26 11:49, alexaxon62 wrote: > Attached doc shows —$1.7rn/year for up to 5 years + $1m for lab setup. (--$9.5m to fund 5 years, $6m for 3 years). Just seeing this after moving my workshop to storage after losing a tenancy... Funny how Bryan was introducing me to some of his business friends around the same time because my electronics design rates were "reasonable" on the culture shock electroporator project partly funded by Bryan. I heard what kind of apartment aggregating internet nodes with radios, (like the Helium network), they wanted, gave them a quote, never heard back... The business friends were way too cheap to pay my easy rates... I've met in person with Bryan 5 times maybe, and he's talked about having cheap lab work done in Ukraine, (before the war), his designer babies effort/plan as something to do on islands or in regions with different than USA laws...which is where I lost interest. -- John Griessen Albuquerque NM off-grid and RV DC power appliances, and maybe electroporators again some day (with necessary custom plastic enclosures) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en Learn more at www.diybio.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/1c92ba66-ef4a-4b85-87c7-29255444e0ec%40industromatic.com.
Re: [DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
And speaking of Open Hardware 2026 https://www.youtube.com/live/naQz1KVqQF0?si=p7ZFxv2SPlfdwD1h&t=1
On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 12:47 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
In my personal experience everyone I met started with or became interested in the DIYBio movement from a place of passion and creative curiosity. The DIY aspect was attractive to me because, not everyone gets invited inside the ivory tower of academia or has access to R1 schools and labs. Just because you aren't a mechanic for a NASCAR or Formula 1 team doesn't mean you can't buy a junk car and some tools and tinker in your garage.
To me DIYBio was allowing access to "do science" outside of the normal places you do science. What you're able to learn should be delinked from age and resources, though it often isn't. Doing science is expensive. The tools are expensive, the reagents are expensive, and proper space is expensive. Over time that bleeds you dry. And yes, I know it can be done "on the cheap".
The "open" aspect of sharing went away after taking investor money in my case. And then once you can no longer live at your parents, bills start piling up to live, and hobbies generally don't pay the bills. So you grow up and get a job and have less time to tinker for the sake of it. Big props to the people that were able to make viable businesses, if even for short periods of time, in this space.
I met some amazing people in person and online from this list and still keep in touch with a number of them!
On Tue, May 19, 2026 at 10:16 AM Hans <hanstwilms@gmail.com> wrote:
--
That's the DIYBio discord. It's more active than this, but not very.What were you trying to do with DIYbio? I wanted to manufacture super cheap enzymes for other DIYBio people. It was Keoni doing the FreeGenes stuff, but I think that's dead too.
What do you guys think killed the DIYbio movement?
-Hans Wilms
On Mon, May 18, 2026, 8:10 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Very cool piece of open hardware and nice documentation. Electrical engineering seems to be where open source shines.
--On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 10:01 PM S James Parsons Jr <sjamesparsonsjr@gmail.com> wrote:
opulo LumenPnP--
On May 14, 2026, at 7:19 PM, Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topicOpen Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
--
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Re: [DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
In my personal experience everyone I met started with or became interested in the DIYBio movement from a place of passion and creative curiosity. The DIY aspect was attractive to me because, not everyone gets invited inside the ivory tower of academia or has access to R1 schools and labs. Just because you aren't a mechanic for a NASCAR or Formula 1 team doesn't mean you can't buy a junk car and some tools and tinker in your garage.
To me DIYBio was allowing access to "do science" outside of the normal places you do science. What you're able to learn should be delinked from age and resources, though it often isn't. Doing science is expensive. The tools are expensive, the reagents are expensive, and proper space is expensive. Over time that bleeds you dry. And yes, I know it can be done "on the cheap".
The "open" aspect of sharing went away after taking investor money in my case. And then once you can no longer live at your parents, bills start piling up to live, and hobbies generally don't pay the bills. So you grow up and get a job and have less time to tinker for the sake of it. Big props to the people that were able to make viable businesses, if even for short periods of time, in this space.
I met some amazing people in person and online from this list and still keep in touch with a number of them!
On Tue, May 19, 2026 at 10:16 AM Hans <hanstwilms@gmail.com> wrote:
--
That's the DIYBio discord. It's more active than this, but not very.What were you trying to do with DIYbio? I wanted to manufacture super cheap enzymes for other DIYBio people. It was Keoni doing the FreeGenes stuff, but I think that's dead too.
What do you guys think killed the DIYbio movement?
-Hans WilmsOn Mon, May 18, 2026, 8:10 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Very cool piece of open hardware and nice documentation. Electrical engineering seems to be where open source shines.
--On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 10:01 PM S James Parsons Jr <sjamesparsonsjr@gmail.com> wrote:
opulo LumenPnP--
On May 14, 2026, at 7:19 PM, Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topicOpen Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
--
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Re: [DIYbio] Digest for diybio@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic
The movement did not die, I think, at least in part, it just went local. I co-founded a local biospace inside a makerspace in Durham NC in 2016 (Splat Space Community Biolab; splatspace.org and tridiybio.org, the latter slightly out of date), mainly with surplus equipment from my home lab (roningenetics.org) which is also active. We now have 8-9 active members in the community lab, have helped spun off one agbiotech company (elysiabio.com) and are hosting another, East America Science. We are actively building the lab and applying for grants, and have gotten two recently. Our communication is largely within our group. People are too busy with their internal projects and I suspect some have never even heard ot this group. I suspect some of the other local labs are also largely focused on their own projects too.
By the way, that thread last month about Bishop and the Epstein files, while somewhat off point, may have actually been useful for spurring some activity on this site.
On Tue, May 19, 2026 at 11:12 PM <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:
- Open Source Hardware (Case studies) - 1 Update
Hans <hanstwilms@gmail.com>: May 19 10:16AM -0400
https://discord.gg/55uXhnHgy
That's the DIYBio discord. It's more active than this, but not very.
What were you trying to do with DIYbio? I wanted to manufacture super cheap
enzymes for other DIYBio people. It was Keoni doing the FreeGenes stuff,
but I think that's dead too.
What do you guys think killed the DIYbio movement?
-Hans Wilms
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Re: [DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
That's the DIYBio discord. It's more active than this, but not very.
What were you trying to do with DIYbio? I wanted to manufacture super cheap enzymes for other DIYBio people. It was Keoni doing the FreeGenes stuff, but I think that's dead too.
What do you guys think killed the DIYbio movement?
-Hans Wilms
On Mon, May 18, 2026, 8:10 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Very cool piece of open hardware and nice documentation. Electrical engineering seems to be where open source shines.
--On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 10:01 PM S James Parsons Jr <sjamesparsonsjr@gmail.com> wrote:
opulo LumenPnP--
On May 14, 2026, at 7:19 PM, Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topicOpen Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
--
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Re: [DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
Very cool piece of open hardware and nice documentation. Electrical engineering seems to be where open source shines.
On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 10:01 PM S James Parsons Jr <sjamesparsonsjr@gmail.com> wrote:
opulo LumenPnP--
On May 14, 2026, at 7:19 PM, Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topicOpen Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
--
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Re: [DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
opulo LumenPnP
On May 14, 2026, at 7:19 PM, Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topicOpen Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
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Re: [DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
I thought Keoni Gandal (Spelling) was doing FreeGenes a while back. I hear you on the other fronts. I bought 2 Pioreactors and gave them away, rest of lab is in a storage unit, headed back to academia. Startup life teaches you a lot but rarely pays the bills.
What's the discord server link?
If anyone ever wants to apply to YCombinator some day and tackle one of their calls for biotech companies, let me know.
On Fri, May 15, 2026 at 7:00 PM Hans <hanstwilms@gmail.com> wrote:
--Now THIS is what this mostly dead google groups is about.My colleague just got the bioreactor, and it's been pretty amazing as a chemostat to study the effects of doubling time. Really great build.
I remember getting all the enzymes from one of the guys that started the OpenBioeconomy lab (think it was called FreeGenes back then?). But as an individual without a -80C, it's really hard to keep shit going... I packed up my DIY lab a long time ago and rejoined academia to scratch that itch.
I think any Opensauce has to have a financial drive behind it. Someone has to be able to make money off it to keep things going. Otherwise they all just... peter out.
Also, any of you on the DIYbio discord?
On Thu, May 14, 2026 at 7:20 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?--
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topicOpen Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
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Re: [DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
Now THIS is what this mostly dead google groups is about.
My colleague just got the bioreactor, and it's been pretty amazing as a chemostat to study the effects of doubling time. Really great build.
I remember getting all the enzymes from one of the guys that started the OpenBioeconomy lab (think it was called FreeGenes back then?). But as an individual without a -80C, it's really hard to keep shit going... I packed up my DIY lab a long time ago and rejoined academia to scratch that itch.
I think any Opensauce has to have a financial drive behind it. Someone has to be able to make money off it to keep things going. Otherwise they all just... peter out.
Also, any of you on the DIYbio discord?
On Thu, May 14, 2026 at 7:20 PM Dakota Hamill <dkotes@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?--
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topicOpen Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
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-Hans T. Wilms
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[DIYbio] Open Source Hardware (Case studies)
Has anyone come across any case studies of businesses that have adhered to the open source model and shared all the nitty gritty details of creating, manufacturing, pricing, and selling an open source product for a profit?
Open Hardware Basics and Business Alicia Gibb
--
I came across an interesting talk a while back
Which was then followed by someone who wrote a book on the topic
I know Adafruit and Sparkfun have done pretty well, but it seems like open source fits well with electrical engineering. Arduino is now closed source? MakerBot was a big one in the early days to go closed once they took money.
This open source bioreactor is cool and is the type of product I'd be interested in seeing a case study on. https://pioreactor.com
More interested in the science-hardware side of things but wondering of any other examples I've not been able to find. Seems like there's a lot of individual projects but very few "DIYBio" style companies at the size/scale of AdaFruit or Sparkfun.
I get that transistors are much cheaper and easier to store than enzymes.
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Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...
Sure. Of course. That's a false equivalence though. Children don't get a say in a lot of things. We still draw a distinction between necessary and elective medical procedures.
Anyway, my main point was "shut up about it, it doesn't affect you" is a pretty shitty argument.
On Sat, May 2, 2026, 6:43 PM Nathan McCorkle <nmz787@gmail.com> wrote:
--On Thursday, April 30, 2026 at 5:33:47 PM UTC-7 Dan wrote:
The child in question does not get a say in the decisions you make for them, and we are right to be concerned on their behalf.
No child ever in the hundreds of thousands of years of homo sapiens, has a child had the right (or ability) to get a say in their genetic makeup. The parents themselves have in fact only had anything but fuzzy proxies until the past few decades.
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[DIYbio] Lab Space
I need to rent some lab space for about a month to practice/brush up some basic molecular biology techniques (PCR, gel electrophoresis, cloning) with instructor supervision.
I am based in London, UK, though I am open to locations within reasonable travelling distance. We are two people — myself and a qualified supervisor with research experience in molecular biology.
We are looking for basic bench space in a suitable lab environment. We are flexible on equipment and reagents and happy to discuss arrangements with any potential host.
If you have space available, or know of any, please get in touch. All responses welcome — London-based or otherwise.
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Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...
Human cloning is 100% reprehensible, and engineering for anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles is ego-trip TESCREAL horseshit.
Even if it weren't being done with a group of people who openly write about eugenic murder of disabled and elderly people, it would still be reprehensible on its face.
You're right: the objectification of infants for ego-stroking edgelord crypto billionaires "runs hot".
Fuck this.
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29 Apr 2026, 19:45 by kanzure@gmail.com:
On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 1:18 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Wow, reveals new and exciting forms of reprehensible child abuse by Epstein, enthusiastically facilitated by someone from this community. I wasn't actually expecting it to be this bad and, yet
Anything regarding Jeffrey Epstein tends to run very hot. That name has become a lightning rod for anyone to imagine any evil or disgusting thing they want. I hope for reasonable minds and the evidence to prevail. I hope people ask questions before jumping to whatever their absolute worst imagination can drum up.
Anyone who wants to discuss the technology that I've advocated for out in the open for more than a decade, then you're more than welcome. But I won't engage in any witch hunts.
Want to learn more about my efforts in human embryo genetic engineering? Take a look here on my site:
Thank you,
- Bryan
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Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...
cloned*
On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 4:11 PM alexaxon62 <alexaxon62@gmail.com> wrote:
Matt, very few people in this group would claim that clones cell lines for exclusively therapeutic purposes or that gene editing to prevent hereditary disease is somehow inherently wrong. Cathal specifically qualified "anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles". The precise language around the intended project was, verbatim, "the first live birth of a human designer baby, and possibly a human clone, within 5 years", which is markedly different to what you are implying is the subject of ethical questioning. Regardless, your mention of distrust rooted in "religious superstition and raw emotion" does affirm that it exists, and widely so; and how is one to work, or convince others of their work's virtue, when subjects like this cannot be addressed?
On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 4:07 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--That isn't the application they were planning. It was explicitly the psych-case cloning of individuals. The articles shared uplist are revealing.
--
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29 Apr 2026, 20:59 by forkface242@gmail.com:
100%? That's "absolute" BS. Therapeutic cloning isn't all about eugenics — think totipotent ESCs and organ replacement. What's reprehensible about either of those benefits that isn't rooted in religious superstition and raw emotion?
Now, if you're talking about the bioethics of having a complete individual exist who is extremely similar to you — that's a different issue entirely. Probably one for a psychiatrist.
Will someone remind me why we're talking about frikkin' Epstein on the DIYBio chat? FFS.
From: 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2026 11:55:32 AM
To: Diybio <diybio@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [DIYbio] Re: So...
Human cloning is 100% reprehensible, and engineering for anything but the remedy of unambiguous disease alleles is ego-trip TESCREAL horseshit.
Even if it weren't being done with a group of people who openly write about eugenic murder of disabled and elderly people, it would still be reprehensible on its face.
You're right: the objectification of infants for ego-stroking edgelord crypto billionaires "runs hot".
Fuck this.
--
Are you at all interested in Irish Mythology? You might like my newsletter, The Gods and their Croziers:
29 Apr 2026, 19:45 by kanzure@gmail.com:
On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 1:18 PM 'Cathal Garvey' via DIYbio <diybio@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Wow, reveals new and exciting forms of reprehensible child abuse by Epstein, enthusiastically facilitated by someone from this community. I wasn't actually expecting it to be this bad and, yet
Anything regarding Jeffrey Epstein tends to run very hot. That name has become a lightning rod for anyone to imagine any evil or disgusting thing they want. I hope for reasonable minds and the evidence to prevail. I hope people ask questions before jumping to whatever their absolute worst imagination can drum up.
Anyone who wants to discuss the technology that I've advocated for out in the open for more than a decade, then you're more than welcome. But I won't engage in any witch hunts.
Want to learn more about my efforts in human embryo genetic engineering? Take a look here on my site:
Thank you,
- Bryan
--
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