Re: [DIYbio] free food

You're right, its dangerous, and i have admit that's not a proper example. also i am not trained or experienced scient both in scientist itself and the scientist grammer

the temperature is not the high , only 400 degree in Celsius. but what you talked about the oxygen problem, i admit that i havnt considered.

also you said "not a real process that can be used efficiently", but i have said, i am not need factory's high producting rate. you need to know in many country, farmer have little land that 

they make it as a business but a food supplyment. 

anyway i still made a big mistake by taking this as the example. so please stop talking about haber process, and i am totally wrong on this, ok? my point is just the energy's play a important role on food producting to response the topic "free food"

also the free energy concept is not someone announced in youtube that you can use magnet or other weird stuffs to get a free energe, what i talk about is some energy souce that is too cheap that almost could seem as free, for eg, if lockheedmarting could success on their compact fussion, the energy's price might go down to free(almost)

i came here because of the bio cyperpunk announcement, i am interesting of many interesting things inlucde diybio. so i came here. my background is a self-taught programmer worked for 6 years.

and i disgree with your first step in science, in my opinion, its motivation, you might want to get honor or publishing theises while others just want to satisfy his curiosity.

i promise to try my best to improve my grammer, and if you still cant satisfy, just ignore me or kick me from the list if there're some rules about this

2015-01-14 14:47 GMT+08:00 Matt Harbowy <hbergeronx@gmail.com>:

Yunfan:

Although this is a diy list, just because you can think something up with no training or experience, doesn't make it so. And you seem to be suffering from a language barrier.

The word "nitrogen" can refer to the atom, the molecule (n2) as a liquid or gas, ammonia (nh3) or nitrate salts (nh4no3) depending on context. Nitrogen, the liquid or the gas, is more or less inert and can be converted in the Haber process to ammonia, but only at very high temperatures. So to talk about the liquid, which at what, 77k, and the Haber process, at over 600K, in the same breath makes no sense. These things don't coexist. 

Then, there's the oxygen problem. Oxygen boils at about 90k, so oxygen will dissolve in liquid nitrogen, and liquid oxygen is very dangerous. It is a potent oxidizer: so much so that it is used in rocketry as an oxidizer. It is more powerful as a liquid because it is highly concentrated. 

In the Haber process, one uses steam and the oxygen in air with natural gas to produce hydrogen and carbon dioxide. This hydrogen is reacted with the deoxygenated nitrogen left behind from burning natural gas to form ammonia: if you left oxygen in, you would have an explosive result as oxygen reacted with hydrogen to form water.

I'm not sure where you get your ideas about free energy, but the sorts of pressures and temperatures both Haber and liquefaction involve require dense forms of energy. Straight up, Haber typically needs nat gas. And while you can produce hydrogen through electrolysis from solar energy, the process is a toy, not a real process that can be used efficiently. 

The first step in science, both DIY and traditional, is to hit the books. Learn things. Don't rely on Internet chat, or Wikipedia. Don't assume anything you can't demonstrate experimentally, and do some real experiments, not thrash around with pie in the sky ideas about free energy and high pressure, rocket science level dreams. And the people here are trolling you: hold back, and don't respond until you've carefully thought about what you are saying. 

There's a reason why hand crank fertilizer creating machines don't exist: they're called farm animals. 

Good luck trying to rediscover shit.

Matt Harbowy -hbergeronx@gmail.com

650 243 8467 - @hbergeronx on Twitter

On Jan 13, 2015, at 6:40 PM, Yunfan Jiang <jyf1987@gmail.com> wrote:

i googled and 1 psi = 6894 pa

so 3700 psi = 3700 * 6894 = 25 507 800 Pa = 25.5 MPa

to Simon:

if you dont do liquefying process, how can you got pure nitrogen ? although there is almost 80% of air is nitrogen gas, you still can promise its safe when you use air instead of pure nitrogen gas in haber process

2015-01-14 10:11 GMT+08:00 Matthew Bertram <bertram.matthew@gmail.com>:

Only 25 MPa?!?!? This is about 3700psi. I assure you that is a lot of pressure for any DIY project.

On Jan 13, 2015 6:03 PM, "Yunfan Jiang" <jyf1987@gmail.com> wrote:

yes, haber process is what i talk, and according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process), it only require about 15-25MPa, in my location(china), many cheap air compressors could stand with that, so its not that dangerous if you dont need factory producting rate. the only dangerous thing is the product itself .

2015-01-14 5:09 GMT+08:00 Sebastian Cocioba <scocioba@gmail.com>:

I guess the haber process using electrolysis to produce the hydrogen needed. Seems very dangerous to store on a larger scale. The temperature and pressure would be a bit of an issue since that sounds more like a terrible accident waiting to happen. DIY liquid nitrogen would be nice for snap freezing and freeze drying stuffs, tho.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Simon Quellen Field <sfield@scitoys.com> wrote:

How do you plan to get nitrate fertilizer from liquid nitrogen?

-----

Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Yunfan Jiang <jyf1987@gmail.com> wrote:

i think its the central enegy supplyment which limit the food distribution

people doing self-efficient farming for thousand years, then why its big farm is so popular today? because of the big farm could rise producting rate by using chemical fertilizer and farm machine

these elements can not be producted by a self-efficient farm itself which forced them to join the market, and market love high profit, so finally big farm became popular.

i think a self-own power station could solve this, especially when the power come from sunlight directly

for eg, you could made liquid nitrogen at home by using simple machines (such as air compressor)  ,the most cost is the power, if you have your own free power supply(via your solar station or other types) , you then got 

almost free(or very cheap) nitrogen fertilizer. check this link(http://www.instructables.com/id/Homemade-liquid-nitrogen-generator/) for home made liquid nitrogen

and you could use mushroom to producting plastic for daily use materials

BTW, please search this "Enzymatic transformation of nonfood biomass to starch"

2015-01-13 0:08 GMT+08:00 <scocioba@gmail.com>:

I think the issue is more of food distribution and infrastructure rather than an overall lack of food. Most developed nations could even be considered as having too much food. Think of how much food is wasted each day from the restaurant industry each day. Now think of how the hell we could possibly ship said food to people in need around the world without spoilage. Giving people free food rather than free land and farming equipment, government support, and education isn't the best idea. It will solve the acute symptoms but not the chronic situation.



Sebastian S. Cocioba
CEO & Founder
New York Botanics, LLC
Plant Biotech R&D

---

From: christophe malvasio
Sent: ‎1/‎12/‎2015 10:15 AM
To: diybio@googlegroups.com
Subject: [DIYbio] free food

hi all
many peoples on our planet don't have enough food
many projects to give peoples free food had been rejected by those peoples
for example algae rejected cause the growing process was done with recycle ...
so is there a way that a common project for every one here can born to give free food for poor peoples ?
thanks 

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/b2859c7d-2b03-4d18-9ad0-756a77a3a41b%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/54b3f1b1.95538c0a.7a80.259f%40mx.google.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Name: yunfan
Site: http://geek42.info/
Interest:
  - Lang: [forth, clojure, c, python, lua]
  - software: [nginx, redis]
  - abstract: [vm, tiny, cloud, html5]
  - history
  - science-fiction
  - music: [new-age, vangelis, yanni]

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CA%2BB85dxM1AU%3Di1mhDrJFgUk2MGseBn222FYY6mi%2BSaYp_4yduQ%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CAA0yOM7w1Qme5ketSH5ffU9CLP9qOS%3DM8OH86uLLqqB9c%3DBGDQ%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CANH1KJKWZLaKrsdZ8zhQbihcrJZzwzps0S0s9ZYunOR81dtycQ%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Name: yunfan
Site: http://geek42.info/
Interest:
  - Lang: [forth, clojure, c, python, lua]
  - software: [nginx, redis]
  - abstract: [vm, tiny, cloud, html5]
  - history
  - science-fiction
  - music: [new-age, vangelis, yanni]

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CA%2BB85dyCt0KD8%3DnUtj8qEP5m5dM8M42tOrZB5g4vU8RD9cDQow%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CALOYy%2BdtzZTbH4WkLSG1zjOdPfKE8s5q3MEx8Ov0LLPjBWwg_g%40mail.gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Name: yunfan
Site: http://geek42.info/
Interest:
  - Lang: [forth, clojure, c, python, lua]
  - software: [nginx, redis]
  - abstract: [vm, tiny, cloud, html5]
  - history
  - science-fiction
  - music: [new-age, vangelis, yanni]

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CA%2BB85dw%2BjEh7ym8sk%3DA5Og0NabLhAjGyE4YYLjiCF%2BUf2oDbnA%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/A680F8AB-5BEF-4C7F-825A-6959F3A01254%40gmail.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Name: yunfan
Site: http://geek42.info/
Interest:
  - Lang: [forth, clojure, c, python, lua]
  - software: [nginx, redis]
  - abstract: [vm, tiny, cloud, html5]
  - history
  - science-fiction
  - music: [new-age, vangelis, yanni]

--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups DIYbio group. To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/diybio?hl=en
Learn more at www.diybio.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "DIYbio" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to diybio+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to diybio@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CA%2BB85dyE4fiq9%2BQELmNNqBaseJA%3DkhiMfn8FpO8ng7SUfjmPiQ%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.