On Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:01:14 PM, Nathan McCorkle wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Simon Quellen Field <sfield@scitoys.com> wrote:
>> I helped build the Google approach to storing data.
>> There is no way Google would ever use optical media to do that.
>> Or Amazon, or WordPress, or Facebook.
>> At Google, all data is stored three times, and if there is any fault in one
>> copy, that disk is replaced and the data copied from the other two copies.
>> Google stores my data for free.
>> It is impact resistant, and backed up three times.
>> While it is true that a Blu-Ray disk might last longer than I will (30 years
>> from
>> now) storing the data in the cloud can last even longer, since the data is
>> maintained
>> and the disks replaced when they fail.
>> I don't see how free backups in the cloud are ripping anyone off. They cost
>> less than
>> the disks and the safe-deposit box fees. And accessing data on a disk in a
>> safe at a
>> bank can take days, whereas the data in the cloud is available 24/7.
>> If you want to move data around, an optical disk sucks when compared to
>> either a
>> thumb drive or the cloud. You can mail the thumb drive, or you can simply
>> email the
>> URL of the data in the cloud.
>> You might have recorded a lot of video onto Blu Ray disks. A lot of people
>> recorded
>> a lot of data onto 9 track tape, and it is now useless and unavailable to
>> them because
>> they don't have an ancient tape drive to play it on. The same goes for
>> floppy disks,
>> VHS, Betamax, cassette tapes, 8 tracks, and many other physical media that
>> are no
>> longer in use. In the cloud you don't worry about the data being stored on
>> some disk
>> you won't be able to read in 10 years. It gets copied into the latest data
>> centers.
>> Your disk might last 30 years, but in 10 years you won't have anything to
>> read it on.
>> The thumb drive is not for storing archives of data you will never have time
>> to read.
>> Save that for the cloud. But for transferring data, it is a lot better than
>> a Blu Ray
>> disk. It doesn't get scratched, it has no moving parts, it is many times
>> faster to read,
>> and you can fit a handful of them in your pocket, and you can re-use them.
>> Archive.org stores their data on hard drives, just like all the other data
>> centers do.
>> Storing it on $13,000 worth of Blu Ray disks would be incredibly stupid.
>> How long would it take you to find the data you wanted?
>> Let alone copy it. Especially if it is in a bank vault on a Friday night. Or
>> in your car
>> on a hot day.
>> At Google I helped NASA develop techniques to store terabytes of data per
>> second
>> from satellites. We never considered putting that data on Blu Ray disks. :-)
>> The cheapest
>> way to store data today is in the cloud. Google buys hard drives for a lot
>> less than you or
>> I can buy them, and then lets you use them for free.
>> I don't even use Blu Ray for watching videos.
>> I have a media server, and my data is stored on a few hard drives around the
>> house,
>> and in the cloud. If I want to loan someone a video, several fit nicely on a
>> thumb drive.
>> When you have more data than you have time to process it, the time to find
>> the data
>> and access it is important. It is easy to store more video than you can ever
>> find the
>> time to watch. But if you want to watch a video, searching for the file on a
>> hard drive
>> is a lot easier than trying to find it in a pile of Blu Ray boxes. Did you
>> file it under
>> science fiction, adventure, or horror? A search doesn't care -- it can be
>> all three.
>> If you made the video yourself, posting the 1080p to YouTube means you can
>> pull
>> it up on your phone at a restaurant, and it doesn't take a wall of shelves
>> to store it.
>> And sending the URL to your friends is fast and simple. Burning a new Blu
>> Ray disk
>> costs you time and money, and you can't do it on your phone.
>> -----
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Thomas Stowe <stowe.thomas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/1/2011 4:53 PM, leaking pen wrote:
>>>> simon, to burn movies to play in portable players? only thing I've
>>>> used blank dvds for for a while.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I think is is rather creative spam.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Simon Quellen Field <sfield@scitoys.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> With 32 gigabyte flash cards going for $36, why would anyone bother
>>>>> with disks anymore? Why use a slow, huge, one-time-use thing that can
>>>>> only hold single-digit gigabytes when the 32 gb microSDHC card in my
>>>>> phone
>>>>> is smaller than my baby fingernail, re-writable, and I don't need a
>>>>> huge
>>>>> disk
>>>>> reader? In a pinch, I can even read the data on the phone itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> For a little less money, you can get a 32 gb thumb drive that fits
>>>>> easily in
>>>>> your
>>>>> pocket, plugs into any USB port, and is much faster. And you can use it
>>>>> more
>>>>> than 50 times, unlike the big old-fashioned plastic disks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Get a free science project every week!
>>>>> "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I gotta say, you're right. This isn't the place. :P
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/12/11 21:48, Thomas Stowe wrote:
>>>>>>> Vinpower Digital 25GB 4X BD-R 50 Packs Disc Model OQBDR04LT-50
>>>>>>> Item #: N82E16817607054
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 30.99 + tax + free UPS 3 day shipping
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vinpower Digital 25GB 4X BD-R 50 Packs Disc Model OQBDR04LT-50 :
>>>>>>> 30.99 +
>>>>>>> tax + free UPS 3 day shipping
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The information transmitted in this communication is intended only
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
>>>>>>> confidential
>>>>>>> and/or privileged information. Any review, retransmission,
>>>>>>> dissemination,
>>>>>>> copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> information, or any part thereof, by persons or entities other than
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> intended recipient, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and
>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>> and please destroy this communication and all copies thereof,
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>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> attachments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thomas C. Stowe
>>>>>>> Email/GChat/MS Live Messenger: stowe.thomas@gmail.com
>>>>>>> Texas Computer Services: http://www.txpcservices.com
>>>>>>> Portfolio/VCard/Resume: http://www.thomasstowe.info
>>>>>>> Blog: http://www.sc3ne.com
>>>>>>> Survive2 Survivalism Information: http://www.survive2.com
>>>>>>> Phone/SMS/VoiceMail: +1-210-704-7289
>>>>>>> Skype: thomasstowe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> twitter.com/onetruecathal
>>>>>> joindiaspora.com/u/cathalgarvey
>>>>>> PGP Public Key: http://bit.ly/CathalGKey
>>>>>>
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>>> A) It's not spam, it's me being friendly to geeks.
>>>
>>> B) Who would use disks? An amazing amount of people who love their data.
>>> Who's an idiot who uses only hard disks? Do you have kids and a wife? Do
>>> you even care about your data? If you depend on an online backup, you're
>>> getting ripped off. Yes, hard drives can be nearly the same price as
>>> blurays, however this promotion I found on SlickDeals that linked me to
>>> NewEgg earlier makes it more cost effective. We're talking about
>>> 1,250GB, that's 1.25 TB! for $31 + tax! That's Chump Change! You're nuts
>>> to talk badly about a deal like that. Is that your first computer? Do
>>> you even know what today's optical media is capable of? Not only is it
>>> about as much weight as hard disk media, pound for pound but it's not
>>> impact sensitive and has a "warranty" longer than any hard drive you've
>>> bought or will likely buy in the near future.
>>>
>>> It won't last a century, but it'll probably last 2x-3x as long as any
>>> hard drive you have. That said, if you want anything to actually be
>>> around in the future, use optical media. You can drop it, bury it, keep
>>> it in a storage unit or safety deposit box and never need to worry about
>>> any of the things you do with hard drive media. Like, impact
>>> sensitivity, "accidents", acts of god wiping our your drives. Please,
>>> tell us the reasons using disks is inferior to a 32GB flash drive again?
>>> Many people, especially scientists, have much, much much more valuable
>>> data than you could possibly fit on a flash drive. Good luck with that,
>>> until someone steals it, your car or whatever you keep it in if that's
>>> your idea of backup. How about something that can store all of
>>> Arxiv.org, mirrors of your favorite websites and probably your entire
>>> video and document collection to boot? What's really cool, if you have
>>> no budget, you could backup the entire archive.org text collection (.5
>>> petabytes) for around $13,000.
>>>
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>>
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>
> yeah but you can only do all that if you have connectivity. BD-Rs are
> cheaper than flash drives, but sure they require more than a USB port
> (a blu-ray reader). Data in the cloud will only last as long as that
> part of the cloud exists, so if you really care about your data you
> will have a hard backup.
>
> That said $31 is not a great deal for 1.25TB, even though the flooding
> in Thailand has hit the hard drive industry pretty hard, you can still
> find a portable 2TB drive for ~$120 on newegg
>
> For that price I would take the HDD's USB 3.0 speeds over the Blu-ray any day:
> http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_speed - 12X is at the limit of
> max rotation speed, or 400Mbps
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.0 - 640MBps or 5120Mbps or
> 12.8 times faster (actual max speeds for hard drives is around 100MBps
> over USB 3.0)
>
>
Sorry this wasn't well received by all. I was hoping to help people out
by providing a deal in a friendly manner. I didn't do it to get this
kind of response.
A) I wasn't suggesting it for use by a fucking corporation on an
enterprise solution level.
B) As for the time it takes to burn it, so what? You pop it in and go
watch a movie for 15 to 30 minutes. You can cobble together a burning
robot to use with a software backup solution for under $400, which is
also cheap as all hell compared to alternatives.
C) I'll have a reader in a decade regardless of what kind of self
appreciation you have and what social proof you have to back it up. It
doesn't look like BluRay's going away as a format, regardless of what
you've said. The "BetaMax" and "8 Track Tape" analogies don't work.
D) An individual would rather spend $30,000 on hard drives that some of
which _will fail_ versus a media that won't fail or be nearly as easily
broken? You're delusional or they're stupid.
E) It's not like you can't search across disks in boxes or in a robot
as easily with a computer. Burning to optical media doesn't mean you
move back to pen and paper, the dewey decimal system and handwritten
labels.
F) First and foremost regarding the cloud, it offers no reasonable
expectation of privacy and there are laws that allow people to get
e-mail that's left on servers for 6 months, so why not data? The cloud
isn't fool proof. Sure, there's some things put in place but we're
talking TeraBytes here, not megabytes. Your data won't be very
redundantly backed up and it sure as hell won't be for free. You have
no control over the data center where your data is stored, it's
location and what might happen to it are out of your hands. Which is a
bad thing for those of us that want to be sure we keep our data secured
if it's only going to be stored in one or two places. People are
notorious for building data centers in places that experience natural
disasters from time to time. Burning a new BluRay disk could be done
from your phone with a frickin' VNC app. Loading a disk from a disk
robot could be done the same way.
Is it as a developed a solution? No, because the people who wouldn't
use this deal are sticking to flash drives, cloud storage with Amazon,
DropBox and Google Docs or hacking their GMail accounts to act as disk
drives. Most people wouldn't consider burning a BluRay disc at home
whether they're ignorant of the format or just can't afford it. I
wasn't offering this as an end-all-be-all solution to storage for the
masses and I sure as fuck didn't post it to have it regarded as spam or
to get into a pointless debate with someone who while may have an
auspicious background apparently can't see that he wasn't the only one
the e-mail was sent to, nor did I intend to solicit the storage uses
and methods he has. I don't care, I didn't ask for what you use storage
media for and I didn't intend to send more than a "you're welcome"
e-mail if anyone said thanks. I didn't expect someone to go out of
their way to be a douchebag about it. That's okay though.
Sorry All,
TCS
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