Um, yea. Next time just put Off-topic (OT) in the subject. If it's
somewhat relevant or interesting to us, I don't think there's a
problem. I don't mind reading things like this. I think the problem
was a "If it looks like spam, then it's spam" attitude.
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 9:43 AM, Thomas Stowe <stowe.thomas@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:01:14 PM, Nathan McCorkle wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Simon Quellen Field <sfield@scitoys.com> wrote:
>>> I helped build the Google approach to storing data.
>>> There is no way Google would ever use optical media to do that.
>>> Or Amazon, or WordPress, or Facebook.
>>> At Google, all data is stored three times, and if there is any fault in one
>>> copy, that disk is replaced and the data copied from the other two copies.
>>> Google stores my data for free.
>>> It is impact resistant, and backed up three times.
>>> While it is true that a Blu-Ray disk might last longer than I will (30 years
>>> from
>>> now) storing the data in the cloud can last even longer, since the data is
>>> maintained
>>> and the disks replaced when they fail.
>>> I don't see how free backups in the cloud are ripping anyone off. They cost
>>> less than
>>> the disks and the safe-deposit box fees. And accessing data on a disk in a
>>> safe at a
>>> bank can take days, whereas the data in the cloud is available 24/7.
>>> If you want to move data around, an optical disk sucks when compared to
>>> either a
>>> thumb drive or the cloud. You can mail the thumb drive, or you can simply
>>> email the
>>> URL of the data in the cloud.
>>> You might have recorded a lot of video onto Blu Ray disks. A lot of people
>>> recorded
>>> a lot of data onto 9 track tape, and it is now useless and unavailable to
>>> them because
>>> they don't have an ancient tape drive to play it on. The same goes for
>>> floppy disks,
>>> VHS, Betamax, cassette tapes, 8 tracks, and many other physical media that
>>> are no
>>> longer in use. In the cloud you don't worry about the data being stored on
>>> some disk
>>> you won't be able to read in 10 years. It gets copied into the latest data
>>> centers.
>>> Your disk might last 30 years, but in 10 years you won't have anything to
>>> read it on.
>>> The thumb drive is not for storing archives of data you will never have time
>>> to read.
>>> Save that for the cloud. But for transferring data, it is a lot better than
>>> a Blu Ray
>>> disk. It doesn't get scratched, it has no moving parts, it is many times
>>> faster to read,
>>> and you can fit a handful of them in your pocket, and you can re-use them.
>>> Archive.org stores their data on hard drives, just like all the other data
>>> centers do.
>>> Storing it on $13,000 worth of Blu Ray disks would be incredibly stupid.
>>> How long would it take you to find the data you wanted?
>>> Let alone copy it. Especially if it is in a bank vault on a Friday night. Or
>>> in your car
>>> on a hot day.
>>> At Google I helped NASA develop techniques to store terabytes of data per
>>> second
>>> from satellites. We never considered putting that data on Blu Ray disks. :-)
>>> The cheapest
>>> way to store data today is in the cloud. Google buys hard drives for a lot
>>> less than you or
>>> I can buy them, and then lets you use them for free.
>>> I don't even use Blu Ray for watching videos.
>>> I have a media server, and my data is stored on a few hard drives around the
>>> house,
>>> and in the cloud. If I want to loan someone a video, several fit nicely on a
>>> thumb drive.
>>> When you have more data than you have time to process it, the time to find
>>> the data
>>> and access it is important. It is easy to store more video than you can ever
>>> find the
>>> time to watch. But if you want to watch a video, searching for the file on a
>>> hard drive
>>> is a lot easier than trying to find it in a pile of Blu Ray boxes. Did you
>>> file it under
>>> science fiction, adventure, or horror? A search doesn't care -- it can be
>>> all three.
>>> If you made the video yourself, posting the 1080p to YouTube means you can
>>> pull
>>> it up on your phone at a restaurant, and it doesn't take a wall of shelves
>>> to store it.
>>> And sending the URL to your friends is fast and simple. Burning a new Blu
>>> Ray disk
>>> costs you time and money, and you can't do it on your phone.
>>> -----
>>> Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Thomas Stowe <stowe.thomas@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 12/1/2011 4:53 PM, leaking pen wrote:
>>>>> simon, to burn movies to play in portable players? only thing I've
>>>>> used blank dvds for for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I think is is rather creative spam.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Simon Quellen Field <sfield@scitoys.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> With 32 gigabyte flash cards going for $36, why would anyone bother
>>>>>> with disks anymore? Why use a slow, huge, one-time-use thing that can
>>>>>> only hold single-digit gigabytes when the 32 gb microSDHC card in my
>>>>>> phone
>>>>>> is smaller than my baby fingernail, re-writable, and I don't need a
>>>>>> huge
>>>>>> disk
>>>>>> reader? In a pinch, I can even read the data on the phone itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a little less money, you can get a 32 gb thumb drive that fits
>>>>>> easily in
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> pocket, plugs into any USB port, and is much faster. And you can use it
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> than 50 times, unlike the big old-fashioned plastic disks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Get a free science project every week!
>>>>>> "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Cathal Garvey <cathalgarvey@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I gotta say, you're right. This isn't the place. :P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/12/11 21:48, Thomas Stowe wrote:
>>>>>>>> Vinpower Digital 25GB 4X BD-R 50 Packs Disc Model OQBDR04LT-50
>>>>>>>> Item #: N82E16817607054
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817607054
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 30.99 + tax + free UPS 3 day shipping
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vinpower Digital 25GB 4X BD-R 50 Packs Disc Model OQBDR04LT-50 :
>>>>>>>> 30.99 +
>>>>>>>> tax + free UPS 3 day shipping
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The information transmitted in this communication is intended only
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
>>>>>>>> confidential
>>>>>>>> and/or privileged information. Any review, retransmission,
>>>>>>>> dissemination,
>>>>>>>> copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> information, or any part thereof, by persons or entities other than
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> intended recipient, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> received this in error, please contact the sender immediately and
>>>>>>>> delete
>>>>>>>> and please destroy this communication and all copies thereof,
>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> attachments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thomas C. Stowe
>>>>>>>> Email/GChat/MS Live Messenger: stowe.thomas@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> Texas Computer Services: http://www.txpcservices.com
>>>>>>>> Portfolio/VCard/Resume: http://www.thomasstowe.info
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://www.sc3ne.com
>>>>>>>> Survive2 Survivalism Information: http://www.survive2.com
>>>>>>>> Phone/SMS/VoiceMail: +1-210-704-7289
>>>>>>>> Skype: thomasstowe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> www.indiebiotech.com
>>>>>>> twitter.com/onetruecathal
>>>>>>> joindiaspora.com/u/cathalgarvey
>>>>>>> PGP Public Key: http://bit.ly/CathalGKey
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio?hl=en.
>>>> A) It's not spam, it's me being friendly to geeks.
>>>>
>>>> B) Who would use disks? An amazing amount of people who love their data.
>>>> Who's an idiot who uses only hard disks? Do you have kids and a wife? Do
>>>> you even care about your data? If you depend on an online backup, you're
>>>> getting ripped off. Yes, hard drives can be nearly the same price as
>>>> blurays, however this promotion I found on SlickDeals that linked me to
>>>> NewEgg earlier makes it more cost effective. We're talking about
>>>> 1,250GB, that's 1.25 TB! for $31 + tax! That's Chump Change! You're nuts
>>>> to talk badly about a deal like that. Is that your first computer? Do
>>>> you even know what today's optical media is capable of? Not only is it
>>>> about as much weight as hard disk media, pound for pound but it's not
>>>> impact sensitive and has a "warranty" longer than any hard drive you've
>>>> bought or will likely buy in the near future.
>>>>
>>>> It won't last a century, but it'll probably last 2x-3x as long as any
>>>> hard drive you have. That said, if you want anything to actually be
>>>> around in the future, use optical media. You can drop it, bury it, keep
>>>> it in a storage unit or safety deposit box and never need to worry about
>>>> any of the things you do with hard drive media. Like, impact
>>>> sensitivity, "accidents", acts of god wiping our your drives. Please,
>>>> tell us the reasons using disks is inferior to a 32GB flash drive again?
>>>> Many people, especially scientists, have much, much much more valuable
>>>> data than you could possibly fit on a flash drive. Good luck with that,
>>>> until someone steals it, your car or whatever you keep it in if that's
>>>> your idea of backup. How about something that can store all of
>>>> Arxiv.org, mirrors of your favorite websites and probably your entire
>>>> video and document collection to boot? What's really cool, if you have
>>>> no budget, you could backup the entire archive.org text collection (.5
>>>> petabytes) for around $13,000.
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> yeah but you can only do all that if you have connectivity. BD-Rs are
>> cheaper than flash drives, but sure they require more than a USB port
>> (a blu-ray reader). Data in the cloud will only last as long as that
>> part of the cloud exists, so if you really care about your data you
>> will have a hard backup.
>>
>> That said $31 is not a great deal for 1.25TB, even though the flooding
>> in Thailand has hit the hard drive industry pretty hard, you can still
>> find a portable 2TB drive for ~$120 on newegg
>>
>> For that price I would take the HDD's USB 3.0 speeds over the Blu-ray any day:
>> http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_speed - 12X is at the limit of
>> max rotation speed, or 400Mbps
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.0 - 640MBps or 5120Mbps or
>> 12.8 times faster (actual max speeds for hard drives is around 100MBps
>> over USB 3.0)
>>
>>
>
> Sorry this wasn't well received by all. I was hoping to help people out
> by providing a deal in a friendly manner. I didn't do it to get this
> kind of response.
>
> A) I wasn't suggesting it for use by a fucking corporation on an
> enterprise solution level.
>
> B) As for the time it takes to burn it, so what? You pop it in and go
> watch a movie for 15 to 30 minutes. You can cobble together a burning
> robot to use with a software backup solution for under $400, which is
> also cheap as all hell compared to alternatives.
>
> C) I'll have a reader in a decade regardless of what kind of self
> appreciation you have and what social proof you have to back it up. It
> doesn't look like BluRay's going away as a format, regardless of what
> you've said. The "BetaMax" and "8 Track Tape" analogies don't work.
>
> D) An individual would rather spend $30,000 on hard drives that some of
> which _will fail_ versus a media that won't fail or be nearly as easily
> broken? You're delusional or they're stupid.
>
> E) It's not like you can't search across disks in boxes or in a robot
> as easily with a computer. Burning to optical media doesn't mean you
> move back to pen and paper, the dewey decimal system and handwritten
> labels.
>
> F) First and foremost regarding the cloud, it offers no reasonable
> expectation of privacy and there are laws that allow people to get
> e-mail that's left on servers for 6 months, so why not data? The cloud
> isn't fool proof. Sure, there's some things put in place but we're
> talking TeraBytes here, not megabytes. Your data won't be very
> redundantly backed up and it sure as hell won't be for free. You have
> no control over the data center where your data is stored, it's
> location and what might happen to it are out of your hands. Which is a
> bad thing for those of us that want to be sure we keep our data secured
> if it's only going to be stored in one or two places. People are
> notorious for building data centers in places that experience natural
> disasters from time to time. Burning a new BluRay disk could be done
> from your phone with a frickin' VNC app. Loading a disk from a disk
> robot could be done the same way.
>
> Is it as a developed a solution? No, because the people who wouldn't
> use this deal are sticking to flash drives, cloud storage with Amazon,
> DropBox and Google Docs or hacking their GMail accounts to act as disk
> drives. Most people wouldn't consider burning a BluRay disc at home
> whether they're ignorant of the format or just can't afford it. I
> wasn't offering this as an end-all-be-all solution to storage for the
> masses and I sure as fuck didn't post it to have it regarded as spam or
> to get into a pointless debate with someone who while may have an
> auspicious background apparently can't see that he wasn't the only one
> the e-mail was sent to, nor did I intend to solicit the storage uses
> and methods he has. I don't care, I didn't ask for what you use storage
> media for and I didn't intend to send more than a "you're welcome"
> e-mail if anyone said thanks. I didn't expect someone to go out of
> their way to be a douchebag about it. That's okay though.
>
> Sorry All,
>
> TCS
>
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