Re: [DIYbio] New York Times - Arsenic in Our Chicken?

You'really leaving out the per kilogram part of the doses, or in water the per liter.... with your logic I could get the same amount drinking a dropful of water that I would get drinking 5 gallons

On Apr 25, 2012 1:09 PM, "Simon Quellen Field" <sfield@scitoys.com> wrote:

The article also does not say what the form of the arsenic was.

Arsenites and arsenic trioxide are much more toxic than arsenates.

It's like saying something had copper in it, without saying whether it

is the copper gluconate in my vitamin pill or the copper sulfate in my

fungicide.

The non-cancer dose you list is 0.3 parts per billion.

The EPA allows 10 parts per billion in drinking water, not based on any

science, just based on the fact that levels below that could not be measured

with currently available technology.

Rice grown in the US has an average of 260 parts per billion of arsenic in it.

It is a good thing no one is asinine enough to eat that stuff.

Want to bet that there is more arsenic in the rice than in the chicken?

An entire lifetime of drinking water with 17 parts per billion is associated with

a lifetime skin cancer risk of 1 in 10,000. So clearly eating a chicken occasionally

will give you cancer. And you'll win the lottery.

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz787@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Jordan Miller <jrdnmlr@gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess we can agree to disagree.
>
> cheers,
> jordan

Realistically/scientifically though, that isn't a valid answer, if proof exists.

> On Apr 24, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Simon Quellen Field <sfield@scitoys.com> wrote:
>
> By 'chemicals', what exactly do you mean?
> I don't necessarily want fewer proteins, sugars, fats, vitamins, minerals,
> etc., and those are all chemicals.
> In fact, the entire mass of the chicken is chemicals, so eliminating all of
> them leaves me nothing.
>
> Do you want all traces of selenium removed from the chicken?
> The LD50 is between 12 and 38 mg/kg.
> The LD50 for arsenic is much higher at 185 to 6400 mg/lg.
> So selenium is many times more toxic.
> And yet it is essential to your living past the next few weeks.
>
> Small amounts of arsenic are recommended for the health of the chicken.
> But because people think it is a poison, they are afraid of it in their
> food.
> But there is belladonna in your organic tomatoes and potatoes, and yet that
> is OK with you. It also is more deadly than arsenic.

Simon has a point, but only gives the LD50 for the compounds, rather
than the recommended daily allowance (RDA, the easiest metric I could
find for this sort of thing, it may not be up to date though)
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/selenium-HealthProfessional/

Arsenic
http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/arsenic.pdf
"The acute lethal dose to humans can be about 2 to 20 mg/kg body
weight per day (mg/kg-day)"
"Ingesting small amounts over time produces chronic effects such as
skin darkening and formation of corns, damage to peripheral nerves,
cardiovascular system effects, hair and appetite loss, and mental
disorders.  "
"Arsenic can also cause reproductive/developmental effects, including
spontaneous
abortions and reduced birth weights.  Epidemiological studies indicate an
association between arsenic concentrations in drinking water and increased
incidences of skin, liver, kidney, lung, and bladder cancers"
" Limited information is available on the joint toxicity of
arsenic with other chemicals.  For neurological effects, the predicted
direction of
joint toxicity of arsenic and lead is greater than additive, whereas
the joint toxicity
of these metals is predicted to be  less than additive for the kidney and
hematopoietic (blood-forming) system."

And they've established toxicity dose-response effect guidelines
Cancer Risk
Inhalation UR
4.3 per
mg/m3

Oral SF
1.5 per
mg/kg-day

Non-Cancer Effect
Oral RfD
0.0003
mg/kg-day


Sooo, what the NYT article lacks is the concentrations found.

--
Nathan McCorkle
Rochester Institute of Technology
College of Science, Biotechnology/Bioinformatics

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