Re: Antioxidant hype, was Re: [DIYbio] Need a paper please

There's a "reason" why that is called "argumentation from authority", and why that is a logical fallacy. You have zero reason to think I haven't spent considerable time researching this, both in the literature, on websites, and yes, doing real experiments myself. I've been active in the field since 1994.

Again, you just have to ask for my literature record or other citations of evidence. Yet, you persist in providing no evidence or any sign that you have any experience to make a judgement whether SENS is bullshit or not. Citing Pete Estep or Craig Venter, on my behalf, would be arguing authority with authority. And if God himself told me mitochondria caused aging, I still would ask for evidence and mechanism. They have neither.

It is hard to test the beliefs of others, much harder than just believing. I am not "calling" it bunk- I am saying that the evidence does not support the supposition. But, in my experience, it is bunk (though if anyone accepted that as true and cited this as proof, they would be committing the same logical fallacy of AbyA)- and I am trying to open a reasoned debate on its merits and start projects in the DIYBio community that begin to test these wonky theories.

How do I have any assurance, for example, that you are not a sock puppet of Aubrey deGrey, other than (again, IMO from personal correspondence) he would never argue things as poorly as you have?

Matt Harbowy -hbergeronx@gmail.com
650 243 8467 - @hbergeronx on Twitter

> On Apr 23, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Reason <reason@fightaging.org> wrote:
>
>> On 04/23/2014 06:26 PM, Matt Harbowy wrote:
>> I generally don't appreciate being sent into a rats nest of cross-linked pages. Fightaging.org is like an echo chamber of link bait. This is what you see again and again in communities like that of Autism/Vaccines, Lorenzo's Oil, SENS, and the like. All evidence is positive and no statement is falsifiable or at risk.
> Which demonstrates in microcosm why scientific mainstream movements last long past the point at which they should dissolve in the face of new consensus paradigms. Few people are willing to put in the effort to actually read or critique much of anything outside their present circle: human nature at work. So much of everything is not worth the time that even when new scientific paradigms do in fact arise, supported by the data and a significant number of researchers, some people continue to cheerfully call it all bunk. It's easier to do that than put in the work needed to change your own mind.
>
> For my money, I'd say that anyone in the field should think twice about lumping SENS in with snake oil. By doing so you are saying that George Church, Anthony Atala, Judith Campisi, Maria Blasco, and a score of other highly respected and influential people in the life sciences - all of whom publicly support SENS, which you can see if you take the necessary fifteen seconds to look at the SENS Research Foundation research advisory board membership and statement - are, what, snake oil salespeople? That's clearly just one step away from tin foil headwear. These are some of the leading figures in biomedical research. At some point it has to be easier just to admit that you might be wrong and look at the actual research with an honest eye.
>
> In any case I'm done with this; those are the last points I wish to make in this somewhat futile exchange.
>
> Reason
>
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