Re: [DIYbio] Why isn't there more talk on carbon sequestration?

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You're putting a lot of data into this conversation Simon! :)

On the photosynthesis note, before anyone thinks it's as trivial as
injecting a few pathways: there's a lot of tissue structure behind the
more advanced forms of photosynthesis, where plants segregate parts of
the carbon fixing and photosynthetic cycles from one another.

Given that one of the biggest limiting factors to photosynthesis after
energetic capture (efficiency of turning sunlight into ATP, splitting
water in the process) is carbon fixing in an oxygen-rich environment,
separating the energy capture (which churns out O2) and C-fixing parts
(which is poisoned by CO2) makes perfect sense.

But, it's the sort of thing that's hard for us to do at present.
However, as we get better at such structural stuff, there's plenty of
improvement to be added here. For example, another oxygen-sensitive
capture operation, Nitrogen fixation, has lead to an innovative solution
from legumes; they use leghaemoglobin to bind oxygen and prevent it from
reaching the root nodules that capture nitrogen. Could that approach be
useful for capturing CO2? Maybe!

Bacteria also fix carbon at times, using carboxysomes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carboxysome
There's probably a lot we can learn from their approach that could be
applied in plants, too. They have a huge surface:volume ratio compared
to plants, so their scope for compartmentalising CO2 fixation from
oxygen is much lower. They've probably found a few bright hacks to
achieve this differently, which we could hack into plants.

All in all, big scope for improving plant photosynthesis. And even a 1%
increase would be incredibly dramatic, if you could funnel all that
surplus energy to food-producing organs in the plant.

On 04/04/14 01:44, Simon Quellen Field wrote:
> :-)
> It's only absurd when you take it to absurd lengths.
>
> <absurd>
> The deer in my backyard did not cause the problem. We did. Us old farts,
> that is. We're leaving it to you young folks as a parting gift. Navigable
> Arctic, beautiful Amazon deserts, the Miami scuba diving park, Lake
> Louisiana-Mississippi, the warm vast pastures of Greenland, a Pacific
> without all those bothersome traffic impediments.
>
> I won't see 2100. I'll bet its real nice.
> </absurd>
>
> On the serious side, geometry makes global warming interesting. Currently
> most of the worlds food production happens in the mid-latitudes. Below them
> is desert (Mexico, Arizona, the Sahara, Central Australia, etc.). As the
> latitudes where crops grow most efficiently move towards the poles, there
> is less land to grow them on, because we live on a sphere. With an
> estimated 11 billion people living on the planet by
> 2100<https://www.google.com/search?q=population+in+2100&oq=population+in+2100&aqs=chrome..69i57.3956j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8>(1.57
> times as many people as today), and a 40% drop in the land available
> for farming, food production will have to be much more efficient.
>
> Wheat currently turns 1% of the sunlight energy it gets into consumable
> calories. Sugarcane turns 8% of received energy into
> calories<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency>.
> Some of you might want to think about how to get those efficient
> photosynthesis pathways into wheat and other crop plants.
>
> I'd do it, but us old folks have orders to report to the Soylent Green
> factory, input gate.
>
>
> -----
> Get a free science project every week! "http://scitoys.com/newsletter.html"
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Matt Lawes <matt@insysx.com> wrote:
>
>> How much shall we charge each ruminant for farting methane (more potent
>> greenhouse gas than CO2) into the atmosphere.
>> Obviously when 'enslaved' as a farm animal the cruel overlord
>> rancher/farmer can be billed, but what about the bison in Yellowstone
>> (maybe they have sovereign immunity if Government owned?) And all those
>> deer.....
>> Theater of the absurd can easily overtake us.... thanks All Gore.
>>> matt
>>
>> *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID*
>>
>>
>> Simon Quellen Field <sfield@scitoys.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:10 PM, John Griessen <john@industromatic.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard about this. Does expending energy and money to pump CO2 into
>>> holes in the ground
>>> make some kind of economic sense?
>>>
>>
>> One can put a value on pollution. That's what carbon credits are all
>> about. It worked for acid rain. Pollution credits were how we got sulfur
>> scrubbers installed on all those power plants.
>>
>> We could simply ban using any fossil fuel at all. And keep forming new
>> governments every time it is attempted. Mitigating the harm allows them to
>> stay in business, since the business no longer causes harm. There is an
>> economic cost to mitigating the harm, which makes fossil fuels less
>> competitive with clean alternatives, which helps promote those alternatives.
>>
>> In the end, energy costs more for a while, which can cause economic
>> slumps. But the cost of the pollution goes away, or at least is accounted
>> for. If the cost of using fossil fuels is losing coastal cities and island
>> nations, causing mass extinctions, losing farm productivity, dislocating
>> populations, acidifying the oceans, and a long list of others, it isn't an
>> economic slump, it is a long term investment.
>>
>> Allowing carbon dioxide to pollute the global commons has an economic
>> cost that is currently not being paid by the polluters. Rather than charge
>> them for the actual costs, make them stop polluting. Collecting and storing
>> the pollution is one way to do that, and we can leave it up to the
>> polluters to find a way to make that work for them economically.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
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>>
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>

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